Oil Temps

[INTEGRA DC2]

Ok so i was wondering if anyone has a oil temp gauge in there car? what are your temps? i just recently installed a oil cooler and temp gauge and last week when on FIR west Temps were getting way up there, maxed out my autometer gauge, if anyone has any insight on this lmk

[p-townHONDA]

I thought your car was in impound liar haha

[fmx_dbc]

<--- 18 row oil cooler with autometer oil temp gauge
i believe my gauge maxes out at about 280-300 degrees. If yours is like mine and you're maxing it out, that's NOT GOOD. At about 280+ degrees the oil will start to go into "thermal breakdown". My temp gauge usually reads about 240-250
degrees at the end of a 20-30 minute session

[INTEGRA DC2]

well we were pushing it hard and my gauge maxes out at 250 and we were past that so... i would say like 270 ish?

[fmx_dbc]

You're getting into the danger zone with those temps I think. Might want to see what you can do about improving air flow over your cooler and/or not revving the engine so high

[*inFamous*]

The RX7 will hit about 235ish after a full track day, normally sits around 200.

[JoshDC2]

The RX7 will hit about 235ish after a full track day, normally sits around 200.

you are talking in C tho.

pretty sure bryants is in F.

bryant what weight oil are you running?

[*inFamous*]

you are talking in C tho.

pretty sure bryants is in F.

bryant what weight oil are you running?


That was converted from C to F man. those temps C would be insanity.

:)

[Agent Smith]

it's a rotary, everything is insane about it.

Bryant's running Mobil 10W30

[INTEGRA DC2]

yup i am running mobile clean 5000 10-30, i think i might switch to a amsoil or the valvoline race oil, the cooler is right up front of my car so all the air has to pass threw it, i am thinking a bigger cooler with a fan and different oil will do, but at 8 bucks a quarts and my system hold 6.5 quarts thats a 60 dollar oil change....... that hurts

[fmx_dbc]

Save your money...the ambient temps are dropping! LOL

[VtecCr-x]

6.5 quart oil pan...Dam

[fmx_dbc]

The oil pan does not hold 6.5 quarts I'm sure. There's a lot of oil line and the cooler gets filled as well. My B16 holds 6 quarts

[*inFamous*]

yup i am running mobile clean 5000 10-30, i think i might switch to a amsoil or the valvoline race oil, the cooler is right up front of my car so all the air has to pass threw it, i am thinking a bigger cooler with a fan and different oil will do, but at 8 bucks a quarts and my system hold 6.5 quarts thats a 60 dollar oil change....... that hurts

VR1 isn't to expensive, only a buck more than Clean5000, i'd recommend using it if your thinking of switching...

[Agent Smith]

While on the subject of oil temperatures. I'm in search for a quality oil that doesn't break down under high/extreme temperatures. Any recommendations for a oil cooled turbo b-series? Amsoil seems to be on the top of every ones choice, & I'm going to try it first, but as Integra DC2 mentioned, it's expensive stuff especially if changed after each event. Are there other cheaper alternatives that still meet honda recommended specs & API ratings? I've previously tried mobil1 & I was more impressed with conventional Castrol GTX, haha.

Soon enough I'll have my new engine set up but I'll be using the same old oil cooled turbo, just a lot more boost, bigger intercooler (30"x8"x3.5"), & adding an external B&M oil cooler (8"x11"x1.5") with 8" slim fan (previously had no oil cooler & was definitely heat soaking the oil -mobilclean500, gtx, mobil1, & honda oil- after only a day on track, i'd get that lovely almost green hue in the oil when draining). I'm debating using an rx7 oil cooler since those are much bigger, but I'm also concerned about possible pressure loss, & if I use the rx7 cooler I won't be able to use a fan either because of clearance issues. Another thing I've considered is adding a water sprayer set up to the intercooler (similar to sti) but I'm not sure how beneficial it would be to my iat's?

I"m going to try Amsoil full synthetic not the XL after I break in the new engine & will be sending it out for analysis after the first weekend on track. I really hope I don't have to use amsoil to get the results I want, purely from a cost stand point; however if it last 4 full track days (2 weekends) then it easily might be a winner.

& Yes, I'm bumping an old thread, don't want to bother creating a new one. Give me some input people!

[PhoenixR]

i've run into slight oil cooling issues on my car -- it's not uncommon for me to see 280 degree oil temps after a 35 minute race. most modern synthetics break down around 300 degrees so even 280 is pushing it.

you will see a pressure drop if you step up to a bigger cooler and in that case, condsider throwing an accusump or similar oil accumulator on the car to compensate for the drop. buying the sump, lines, fittings, and check valve will cost you around $350 so it's super reasonably priced for the insurance it yields.

just because the cooler is mounted on the front of the car does NOT mean that airflow is optimized. go get some sheets of aluminum, some tin snips, and some rivets and duct the radiator and cooler. the airflow is going to find the path of least resistance through the grill and most of the time that means around the sides of the radiator/cooler. a LOT of airflow is lost around the sides of the radiator in these cars.

[SimTechDJ]

VR1 is too heavy of an oil and actually is less efficient at cooling. 10w40 mobil 1 full synthetic. and a mobil 1, oem honda or wix/napa gold filter. for the love of all that is holy... no fram filters!!!

i have had good luck with 1st gen rx7 oil coolers and directed airflow is a huge help!

[INTEGRA DC2]

VR1 is too heavy of an oil and actually is less efficient at cooling. 10w40 mobil 1 full synthetic. and a mobil 1, oem honda or wix/napa gold filter. for the love of all that is holy... no fram filters!!!

i have had good luck with 1st gen rx7 oil coolers and directed airflow is a huge help!

and Who are you? what do you drive? have you been on track before?

[The Punisher]

Run a higher weight = absorb more heat = a need for more heat disappation = get an oil cooler.

I've personally been a fan of GTX for conventional.

Amsoil has some excellent options for racing.

VR1 is an excellent option as well provided you have an additional heat exchanger to dispperse the extra heat a 40+ weight oil will hold.

[SimTechDJ]

i am me, HI!
as per my sig... a '95 hatch.
and yes, much time on the track.

the issue with higher weight oil is that it does not flow as well, hence why it absorbs more heat because it doesn't move as fast. also a great way to burn up bearings when the oil is to thick to properly flow into the head.

i tried using the heavy weight oils and found the vehicles run better with 10w40 than with a 20w50 or just 50wt.

[Agent Smith]

i am me, HI!
as per my sig... a '95 hatch.
and yes, much time on the track.

the issue with higher weight oil is that it does not flow as well, hence why it absorbs more heat because it doesn't move as fast. also a great way to burn up bearings when the oil is to thick to properly flow into the head.

i tried using the heavy weight oils and found the vehicles run better with 10w40 than with a 20w50 or just 50wt.

I think he meant, what is your name?

[SimTechDJ]

oh, hi... i'm dave and i drive a honda.
"hi dave"
i grew up "riding red" and this is my 2nd honda car. i have had many honda motorcycles though and my first honda was an '86 accord that put down 142hp and was in a chassis with 392k miles.

[street dreams]

wow this thread makes me feel good about my oil temps. i dont road race but on my turbo car at cruising i'm at 185. my sandwich plate adapter has a thermostat on it. put when i beat on it or take it to the strip i see 200-210 and thats with a earls oil cooler

[Agent Smith]

Dave, what tracks have you been on/what is your experience?

Sweet Dreams, what size earl's cooler are you running? The strip does not heat up engines like road racing does, your only on it for 20 seconds or so with a good burn out; road racing 15min sessions are usually a minimum.

[street dreams]

o trust me man i know theres a difference. i'm just glad to see my temps arent high. like i thought they were. and the oil cooler im using looks like the middle one in this picture. http://www.holley.com/data/types/pictures/Oil%20Coolers.jpg

[Importfan2]

I have a Rx oil cooler is someone is interested.. i was gonna use it on the R but i dont think im gonna need it..

not tryin to thread jack.. alot of great information in this thread..

[INTEGRA DC2]

I have a Rx oil cooler is someone is interested.. i was gonna use it on the R but i dont think im gonna need it..

not tryin to thread jack.. alot of great information in this thread..

please pm me a price, condition i want it

[flyzlow]

Where are you measuring the oil temp? As others have stated, you really don't want temps above 270 or so. With my decent sized cooler and -10AN lines, my B20 stays at 240* even in pretty hot ambient temps.

I've used VR-1, Amsoil, Redline, and Royal Purple. I've used anything from 10w30 to straight 50w and I've never been able to tell any difference in how the car performed. I did notice that the 20w50 amsoil did come out of the motor significantly cleaner and less burnt smelling after 2 weekends than the others, but that's hardly scientific. I know honda racers that have put multiple full seasons on motors running nothing but VR-1, so as long as you keep temps in check and change oil relatively often I think you can pretty much use whatever.

[INTEGRA DC2]

[QUOTE=flyzlow;1829889]Where are you measuring the oil temp? As others have stated, you really don't want temps above 270 or so. With my decent sized cooler and -10AN lines, my B20 stays at 240* even in pretty hot ambient temps.

i am measuring the temp at the output of the sandwich plate where are you measureing it? i wanna try and get it out of that block and try it other places, gonna be re-doing the whole thing soon so i will post pics and let ya know results

[flyzlow]

Personally I think the best place to measure is the oil pan, but usually the sandwich plate or fliter relocator is easiest. If you're measuring the oil coming right out of the engine, your temps will show higher than someone who's measuring after the cooler or in the oil pan. When I said my oil temps are 240*, that was after the cooler.

[berny2435]

I think some of you have it all wrong with oil weight and it's effect on cooling.. .

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief11%20-%20Internal%20Combustion%20Engine%20Lubrication.pd f
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136052

read the first link about bearing tollerances and the part about oil shear.

The more an oil is forced to shear, the hotter it will become b/c shearing requires energy. ENERGY IS HEAT.

Engines have tollerances. If you have a bearing tollerances while in operation of XXX and your oil film thickness at 250deg is XXXX, if the oil is thicker than it needs to be, than the oil has to shear to get into the bearings. If it is not thick enough, there wont be enough cushion to provide protection. So yeah, thin 30 weights might not be ideal and the ZDDplus links states this. But you aren't doing yourself any favors though with a really thick oil if your engine doesn't need it. An oil that suits the min and max is needed but hitting the sweet spot of operation is key for racing engines that see sustained temps and pressures. This is also one of the reasons why Engines at startup encounter extra wear (beacause the oil has problems physically squeezing b/t the bearings, not really b/c the oil can't get from the sump to them b/c of missunderstood LOW Pressure!!!))


In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition. If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up. It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up.


Higher flow at the bearings actually provides more seperation pressure to feed oil into the bearings.. . New, cooler oil in there is good.. .

High flow is GOOD!!! U know, like high flow motec exhaust YO! no if we could just get some flow gauges implemented haha! those are pricey!

on that note. Mobil 1 has a really really sweet oil 15W-50 that really isn't as thick as you think. It has great anti wear additives ZDDP which is heavily mentioned in the first link. half that with M1 0W-40 and you are set.

Be aware, many companies make REALLY thick 40 weights (red line, amsoil). The German Casterol Syntec 0-30 is actually closer to a 40. If going with those, I wouldn't go above a 40.

REMEMBER, At operating temp, a 0,5,10,15,20 Weight all provide the same protection but at low temps, they are different b/c of viscosity. why are they different? Viscosity additives. The lessor amount of viscosity additives the better b/c the oil has less to loose. This is one of the reason why SYNTHETICS ARE BETTER!!!!

[chakaloso_02]

found some stuff on another forum...
http://www.club3g.com/forum/eclipse-performance/111733-everything-you-ever-wanted-know-about-oil.html

[berny2435]

^^^ same as I posted basically. it refs the same motor oil 101 info.