Looking for pad guidance

[Stock]

Looking for track pads for my '91 Si w/ standard 9.8" (?) fronts and CRX Si rear discs. The car currently weighs 2030 and I intend to get it lighter so I don't think I'm going to need a crazy compound or anything but I'm wondering what's out there because most of what I'm finding for sale is EBC and other questionable companies.

:poke:

[ILIKETODRIVE]

I love my Carbotech's. For your weight, I would do the XP10's front and XP8's or AX6's rear (depending on the kind of pad you want).

[Stock]

I'm getting told Hawk HP+ by several dudes on H-T, back when I had my EVO this pad was laughable, I take it it's more proven in the Honda community?

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Well, it kind of depends on your tire selection and braking style. Street tires or r-comps? Which make/model? There's obviously a difference between Yokohama S-drive and Kumho XS, just like there's a difference between RA-1's and Hoosier A6's.

If you're someone who is really good at modulating the brake pedal and likes to trail brake and/or left-foot brake a lot, I don't think that HP+ pads will be enough.

[The Punisher]

Iliketodrive, i'll use Ravi as an example. He recently went form AX6's on XS's in stock sizes on his NSX to much wider R comps. He has been using AX6's. They worked fine for the XS's but when he switched tires, they failed miserably. I believe hes going to be using 10 / 8 XP's now.

For a lighter car the AX6 will be fine, however they are VERY loud when cold :)

So as Iliketodrive has stated, your usage and equipment will make a big difference!

[PhoenixR]

for what it's worth:

i usually run hawk blues up front and either HP+, HP, or stock on the rear depending on track conditions. i have also had luck with cut down stock rear pads -- even with a 4040 prop, hondas are way rear bias-heavy. an adjustable prop valve is on my to-do list.

2250lb car with ITR front brakes, integra rear disks, 4040 prop.

edit -- i felt i should say that this is on a civic racecar that is NOT street-driven.

[*inFamous*]

As mentioned above, I have used the AX6's on both streets and now R comps and will firmly say they will not stand up to Rcomps. Granted that is on a heavy 2800lb car... then again Carbotech says NOT to use them for intermediate to advanced HPDE AND not to use them with R-comps. SO that was a setup for failure there.

I will be using XP10/8 next time around!

For a street pad I really liked the Hawk HPS, but for HPDE, it wasn't cutting it (that was on the integra) and I ended up using Hawk Blacks for track

[BlueTeg]

Will these be for daily driving duty and track days or dedicated track pads?
What tires?

[Stock]

Pretty dedicated track pads, if I ever drive it on the street I'll swap them out or deal with the squeal. ;)

205 615's at first but moving to some R comps in the near future.

[*inFamous*]

I'd say start with Plus or AX6 for street tires but know that you will need something more aggressive with a wider / stickier compound. The AX6's worked fine for my heavy ass car and 205/225 tire combo with XS (slightly stickier than your 615's).

[LoooseGSR]

Not many people run them anymore because they are so expensive, but Cobalt Friction is one of the best pads out there. The XR-3 and XR-2 wear like iron and NEVER fade, I've never run on those, but I was a HUGE fan of the Cobalt Spec-VR which the XR-3/2 replaced. A former Honda Challenge racer ran the XR3 and I think after 2 full seasons they were only half worn.

[BlueTeg]

I agree with Justin, the Cobalts are great pads. I ran the XR3's (front) and loved them. They wear great (I got about 1.75 years out of mine, tracking the car every month) well, have a good linear feel (they worked well with RA1's, NT01's, A032H) and good temp range for most FWD honda's in the 2200-2700 lbs. range. They also do not need to be bed in, according to Cobalt. Which is pretty cool since I've always thought bedding pads on public roads is a recipe for a ticket. The downside is they are like $200+ for a set. Which by comparison to the equivalent from Hawk, is like $50-$75 more per pair. :(
Also, it got annoying to wait for them to make more when they were out. I don't understand how you can call the distributor direct, not a 3rd party vendor, and have them tell you that they're out and won't have some for awhile since they have to make more. WTF

Because of the price, I ended up giving the Hawk's a try. I first tried Blues and hated them. They burn through rotors pretty quick and more importantly do not have a linear feel what so ever. They're very 'on / off'.
In addition to my own car, I've tried them on a friend's EK. He has Wilwood brakes and R888's. They felt the same, if not worse on his car. Very numb through the pedal.

For the same price, you can now get the DTC compound from Hawk which is comparable I would say to the XR2/XR3 from Cobalt. Very linear, good wear characteristics on the pad material and rotors. They work great with just about any DOT R-compound and can work with high peformance street tires (I used star specs and XS's) if you're careful to not go throw the anchor out to hard and fast. Price is nice, IIRC they're about $125-$150 for a pair.

For the rears, I wouldn't worry too much. Axis Ultimates are what I use. Going on like 2 or 3 years now with plenty of pad life left. The highest HP offering from Hawk (which I think is the HP+, someone correct if I'm wrong) should be fine. Cobalt's GTS is a good rear pad too, but really freaking expensive when you consider the other options out there which offer equal performance. Hell even stock pads in the rear are fine for most HPDE, even for the advanced HPDE driver.

[Stock]

Great info, fuck H-T. :)

[ILIKETODRIVE]

+1 for Colbalt pads as well.

IMO, if you plan on using Azenis for now and will switch to r-comps, I would still get XP10's front and AX6's rear (or Axxis Ultimates, or OEM, or whatever you prefer).

[FranktheTank]

Great info, fuck H-T. :)

This is surprising!
Finally one thread that has good info from people who actually track their cars, and no bull shit!

[Kinetic]

This is surprising!
Finally one thread that has good info from people who actually track their cars, and no bull shit!




the road race forum here is all business.......


I use Hawk HP+ in the front of my S2000 and Hawk HPS in the rear....

worked great until I got new Hankook RS-3 tires in a much larger size....now the pads aren't enough. They work well, but I can tell they are not as good as the tires.

On my Integra..the infamous flat black four door.....I used Performance friction #97....street and track.....LOVED THEM...but they were $200 for a set of pads.....ouch!

[Vtecracer]

On my Track only integra I am using the Cobalt XR-1. I also have the ABS enabled as these pads grab really hard when they get hot. I got them because the car weighed in at 2650 which was a bit on the heavy side and my other brakes were fading bad ( carbotech xp10's) in hard braking corners. On the rear of the car are STOCK OEM Acura pads. This is on a set of 225 NT-01's. SO for the weight of your car i would take the others advice and go with the XR-3 or 2 or the carbotech XP-10's. I think Melanie in the yellow type R was using the XR-3's at arroyo and the car did well for braking.

[BoostCreep]

As an aside, I recommend you look into brake fluid as well. Nothing worse than boiling fluid to ruin a good track day... I know. hehe.

[bb4arson]

nice thread about pads learned a little

[The Punisher]

ate superblue or Motul ftw

[Stock]

The car will have Superblue. :)

[Phantomeg]

Carbotech XP10 fronts with the AX6's on the rear...End of story...:grin:

[BlueTeg]

Carbotech XP10 fronts with the AX6's on the rear...End of story...:grin:

Word, according this month's SuperStreet, that's what Honda uses on their HSV-010 too. :thumbsup:

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201001/2010-honda-hsv-010-gt-5_800x0w.jpg

[Phantomeg]

Word, according this month's SuperStreet, that's what Honda uses on their HSV-010 too. :thumbsup:

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/201001/2010-honda-hsv-010-gt-5_800x0w.jpg

That must be a misprint in that article because those are the specs for my brakes...:facepalm:

[BlueTeg]

LOL, I know. I was reading the article and just skimmed over the brakes part. The 'Fastbrakes' is what caught my attention. I was, Fastbrakes adapters on a Super GT car?....what a minute. :lightbulb:

[LoooseGSR]

On my Track only integra I am using the Cobalt XR-1. I also have the ABS enabled as these pads grab really hard when they get hot. I got them because the car weighed in at 2650 which was a bit on the heavy side and my other brakes were fading bad ( carbotech xp10's) in hard braking corners. On the rear of the car are STOCK OEM Acura pads. This is on a set of 225 NT-01's. SO for the weight of your car i would take the others advice and go with the XR-3 or 2 or the carbotech XP-10's. I think Melanie in the yellow type R was using the XR-3's at arroyo and the car did well for braking.

Holy throw out the anchor batman!!!

I guess it's acceptable for you to use that compound Eric, but if you read the website, XR1 and XR2 are suitable for use on Daytona Prototype's, and even though it does say they are suitable for HPDE and TT cars above 2600 lbs, I do not feel it is the optimal pad, brakes like that may not allow for as much modulation as you really need to use to keep up momentum, especially in a low HP, FWD car(yes I know you're now putting out around 200 HP), I would STRONGLY recommend the XR3's as they are most suited for our particular driving style and vehicle type.

If you are looking for budget, hands down Hawk Blue, they won't last as long, but they are consistent and effective.

[BlueTeg]

FWIW: Hawk Blues are about the same price +/- ten bucks as the Hawk DTC-60's. The DTC series are the latest offering from Hawk, so its probably a good guess that they pack improved technology over their former counterparts.

The DTC-60's have a better heat range (objective) and better modulation (subjective).

[berny2435]

On Heartland Park Topeka and Mid American Motorplex tracks.. .

no ABS, OEM Brakes, OEM EX prop Valve. AP racing 5.1 fluid on a 210whp 95 civic EX with K20 I faded Ax6s on 205 Hankook RS2s with passenger. weighed 2450 with me in it and full tank of gas. went to ITR fronts with XP8s front and rear worked on Hankook RS2s but I still pushed them to their limit I think.

Upgraded to 225/45/15 Toyo RA1s and Ended up with Satisfied GS3 front and carbotech XP8 rear which worked well enough for me. I could drive it on the street too. -2.5 camber front and rear.