Tire Time: 225/45/15 anyone??

[SlowCivicHmm]

So it's time to move on from the 205/50/15 Falkens (Azenis/Ziex)

YES I'VE ONLY TRACKED AND USED FALKEN ON MY CARS ON TRACK!!! LOL.....



So I've narrowed it down to 2 tires:

Who: Nitto NT-01 & Hankook R-S3

What: Both in 225/45-15

Why: 100 threadwear vs 140 threadwear



Now I know most here will tell me the Nitto since its what they have used & proven....or the Toyo RA1/R-888.

But I'm looking for something that lasts and can hold many heat cycles....so how much use are your Nitto's seeing and how many heat cycles before they are useless for competition?? (meaning consistant and predictable)

I'm looking to pick up 2 sets of tires for the 2011 season. (One set for Saturday, One set for Sunday)....The car using them will be competing in both TT and Race Group as time allows, so both sets need to be 100% usable all season. (10 events in a low powered Civic)....then in 2012 will be used for just street group once done with competing for some fun til they cord!! (I don't plan to cord them racing in 2011)

Let the comments begin!!!


-Joser

[SlowCivicHmm]

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/hankook/hk_ventusrs3_ci2_l.jpg

or

http://features.evolutionm.net/admin/imageview.php?image=1191

[SlowCivicHmm]

Yes 2 sets of tires.............actually 3...

I'll also be on Star Specs for Street Group throughout the 2011 season in 205/50/15........but I want grip for the Racing!!!

10 2 Day Events........split per set of tires.... They'll last right???? Lets hear it....

[crxhfb16]

you should try the solo forum those people know there tires.

[LoooseGSR]

Grassroots Motorsports did a feature on the latest street tires, Kumho XS, Dunlop Star Spec, Bridgestone RE-11, Toyo R1R and the Azenis, the Hankook was still too new and wasn't tested.

Kumho apparently has the hot tires in the 205/50/15 size, they don't offer a 225/45, but they are also about $20 per tire cheaper.

I'm going with RS-3's when I get new tires, it's a street tire and at 140 treadwear it's almost an R-compound. The Nitto is a little more expensive and will probably last a little less long.

If I was sticking with a 205 tire, Kumho would be my bet hands down.

[TTM_SALES]

nt01

[ChrisIsYoung]

Nt01

[SlowCivicHmm]

Grassroots Motorsports did a feature on the latest street tires, Kumho XS, Dunlop Star Spec, Bridgestone RE-11, Toyo R1R and the Azenis, the Hankook was still too new and wasn't tested.

Kumho apparently has the hot tires in the 205/50/15 size, they don't offer a 225/45, but they are also about $20 per tire cheaper.

I'm going with RS-3's when I get new tires, it's a street tire and at 140 treadwear it's almost an R-compound. The Nitto is a little more expensive and will probably last a little less long.

If I was sticking with a 205 tire, Kumho would be my bet hands down.

Kumho?? do you know which one?? mx?? I wish I still had GR mag, but without my NASA membership I don't get it, and haven't really looked for it.....

Thanks for the info JS....we have the same reasons for the R-S3's...last a lil longer and the 140 threadwear...

nt01

Nt01


^^^ but why?? what size you guys rock?? how many sessions before they fall off??? how many heat cycles have they lasted??? and how many events before cording??

[SlowCivicHmm]

you should try the solo forum those people know there tires.

I know, but I'm a noob over there...LOL

[Daddy_Digital]

thats a wide tired with low profile. NICE! i may consider looking for this tire size.

[SlowCivicHmm]

yes sir...but the tires in this size aren't really considered a daily tire........more of a autox/track tire...or on a toy that don't get driven much.....the tires are soft...

[LoooseGSR]

Kumho?? do you know which one?? mx?? I wish I still had GR mag, but without my NASA membership I don't get it, and haven't really looked for it.....

Thanks for the info JS....we have the same reasons for the R-S3's...last a lil longer and the 140 threadwear...






^^^ but why?? what size you guys rock?? how many sessions before they fall off??? how many heat cycles have they lasted??? and how many events before cording??

It's the XS, it replaced the MX, Tire Rack sells them for I believe 90 a tire.

[SlowCivicHmm]

^^ thx brotha!!!! I always wanted to try the MX.......

saving me $$$ is always welcomed!!

[civil]

Here ya go man. One of our local National Champs did a write up on the best tires. This is purely on the AutoX level.

http://www.azsolo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10213&st=40&p=108846&#entry108846

For recent tires that have come out the RS3's are the best tire for the money. They last a long time and get to temp really fast. For warm weather the RS3 is THE tire to have for AutoX. During cold/wet events everyone swears by the Star Spec's and the Toyo R1R's.

[Phantomeg]

First of all you have to decide if your focus is going to be Auto X or road racing then from there, choose a tire that's suitable....There is plenty of experience in our local racing community to make an informed choice on tire selection...Especially, what works best on Hondas to include suspension setups :biggrin:

[LoooseGSR]

^^ thx brotha!!!! I always wanted to try the MX.......

saving me $$$ is always welcomed!!

From what I understood the MX only responded to brutal flogging and worked really well on heavier cars, lightweight cars like ours, it didn't work well for.

[Agent Smith]

IMO get the NT01's for Road Racing, your driving for 20minute plus sessions and don't want a tire to give out or become greasy half way through the session, 225/45/15 NT01 on an 8" rim brings a smile to my face every time. I was really surprised with the level of grip, turn in, and predictability, they are a very easy tire to read and feel what the car is doing. Great stiff sidewall. I really have no complaints with the tires, but haven't completed a full season on them. why change what works? Besides NT01's are like $500 shipped for a set, can't go wrong at that price and it's well worth the bill extra over street tires.

[PhoenixR]

i ran over 25 heat cycles on the NT01 in 224/45/15 including two enduros.

the tire feels almost exactly the same as an RA-1 and lasts about as long. one benefit of the NT-01 is that it is going to be cheaper. to perform well, RA1s need to be shaved to 4/32nds (IMO) and the NT-01 is a shallow tread depth to begin with and doesn't need to be shaved.

for the record, both NT-01s and RA1s ARE street tires.

[BlueTeg]

I got 2 full years of time trial use on my 225/45/15 NT-01s. (60+ heat cycles?) I bought them brand new in 2008. Ran them all season in 08 and 09. Sold them to a friend in January of 2010, at which point they still had tread marks on them. He ran the piss out of them until the middle of this year when he/they corded them (pretty sure he only corded them because he locked up the brakes). They're just like the RA1s, in that they're fast until you cord them.

If you don't have a crazy aggressive alignment spec, they'll last you forever.

RS3 is a street tire first and competition tire 2nd. There is no way they're going to hold more heat than an NT01, or have as much grip. I ran the Kumho XS tires for a few months and they were great....but not as great as a long life budget R-comp. If this tire is going to be used exclusively for track time, its a no brainer based on the 2 choices that you've provided.

[LoooseGSR]

<-- Starting to re-think getting Hankooks and considering NT01's....

[SlowCivicHmm]

Gabe just sold me on the nitto....

[Phantomeg]

Unless you have the budget for Hoosiers, Nittos are where its at...

[SlowCivicHmm]

so where do you guys get your tires @??


I need a set of nittos 225/45/15, and installation....cash ready!! rims ready!! LMK!!

[Agent Smith]

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/vehicle/tires/nitto/225%252F45-15+nitto+nt-01+%22competition+radial%22+n%252Fa.html

[LoooseGSR]

http://www.onlinetires.com/products/vehicle/tires/nitto/225%252F45-15+nitto+nt-01+%22competition+radial%22+n%252Fa.html

although i would agree that is a good price, I STONGLY advise people to get tires from Brian Shackelford at Toyo's only here in Phoenix. He does all the tires services at NASA events and has supported the club racing community for many years. Figure you'll pay about the same price you would with shipping from the other company.

[SlowCivicHmm]

^^^ last time I tried to get tires from him he was no help......raped me on mounting fee's.....even being a NASA worker.....


I'd rather buy online......IMHO....

[ILIKETODRIVE]

although i would agree that is a good price, I STONGLY advise people to get tires from Brian Shackelford at Toyo's only here in Phoenix. He does all the tires services at NASA events and has supported the club racing community for many years. Figure you'll pay about the same price you would with shipping from the other company.

Unfortunately (last time I checked with Brain) he would not get NT-01's and would only get RA-1's. His price on RA-1's was fairly high as well...

As much as I would like to support local business, if they can't be competitive in price AND selection they probably won't get my business. If you want/need tires at the track, he is the way to go for sure.

Locally there are few places (only ones that come to mind are Discount Direct and maybe UMS and SRD) that can beat onlinetires.com for NT-01's (and XS's). They were (at one point) LESS than $500 SHIPPED TO MY DOOR. With tire prices going up everywhere, that didn't last forever but they still have the best price I have found anywhere.

IMO, the RS-3 seems great on paper but they're more expensive than NT-01's. I would rather use PT/TT points towards tires (instead of brakes/aero) and save money at this time in my life.

[SlowCivicHmm]

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/tires.jpg

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Last time I searched for RS-3's they were roughly $135 each. That's awesome that they have gone down in price...hmm...

Onlinetires.com has NT-01's for $122 each, which is A LOT cheaper than that price. Even after shipping they're about $6 cheaper each.

[Agent Smith]

Joser, if your looking for the cheapest possible price (which I know you are), email or submit a price match to discounttiredirect.com and link it to onlinetires.com and then they will call you same or next day and they will try to beat the price or say they can match it, tell them to get you under $500 out the door and give CC info they'll be at your door in a couple of days, just in time for Thanksgiving event!

[SlowCivicHmm]

LOL!! Not for the event Justin....No car to use em on!!!!!!!

December Event I might use the DD to put around...

These tires are for the Teal and the new Nascar rims.......for fitment of new suspension/fender flares, and getting the rest of the body work/door DONE!!


Thanks for the info...I already hit up UMS....good deal....waiting to see what my buddy @ discount locally can do......if not I had already thought about the price match.....

Just gotta get my sis the money since she has the CC....DOH!!

[SlowCivicHmm]

Last time I searched for RS-3's they were roughly $135 each. That's awesome that they have gone down in price...hmm...

Onlinetires.com has NT-01's for $122 each, which is A LOT cheaper than that price. Even after shipping they're about $6 cheaper each.



530 or so shipped.......wOOOt.....this might be what I do...unless DTD can beat that price....or my homie come through!!

[Agent Smith]

LOL!! Not for the event Justin....No car to use em on!!!!!!!

December Event I might use the DD to put around...

These tires are for the Teal and the new Nascar rims.......for fitment of new suspension/fender flares, and getting the rest of the body work/door DONE!!


Thanks for the info...I already hit up UMS....good deal....waiting to see what my buddy @ discount locally can do......if not I had already thought about the price match.....

Just gotta get my sis the money since she has the CC....DOH!!

I've got more than one car we can use these tires on for the nov. event, you can borrow a car, let me borrow the tires lol.

[SlowCivicHmm]

Lmao!!!

[civil]

Just FYI TireRack has the R-S3's for $110each.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Hankook&tireModel=Ventus+R-S3&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=245WR5Z222&tab=Sizes

[mixedCRX]

would the 225-45R15's be ok to use on 7" rims? i want to upgrade from my Neo Gen's (still learning how to drive) i've been thinking of getting new rims but i'll have to sell this set or trade before i do so. but anyways 225 on a 7" yay or nay??

[LoooseGSR]

would the 225-45R15's be ok to use on 7" rims? i want to upgrade from my Neo Gen's (still learning how to drive) i've been thinking of getting new rims but i'll have to sell this set or trade before i do so. but anyways 225 on a 7" yay or nay??

Other's will say different but I still recommend using a good solid street tire for a while before making a jump to an R-compound if you're still learning to drive.

R-compounds can allow a still-learning driver to make mistakes and recover much easier than a street tire will, this creates a reliance on the tire rather than the ability of the driver. Get good on street tires first and you'll find that r-compounds are much more fun and they will last you longer too.

Good street tires to use are the Kumho XS, Dunlop Z1 Star Spec, Hankook RS-3, Bridgestone RE-11.

And yes to answer your question, a 225/45 will be just fine on a 7" rim.

[SlowCivicHmm]

^^^ I took his advise

I've only tracked on Azenis, some Ziex, some Kumho Ecstas etc etc....195/50/15 and 205/50/15


I did barrow R comp's for 1 or 2 days....but those were 13's.....

I've learned a lot, and my D is considered fast...hahaha, I might go NT01 this year, and thats after 7 years of track experience....

[mixedCRX]

Other's will say different but I still recommend using a good solid street tire for a while before making a jump to an R-compound if you're still learning to drive.

R-compounds can allow a still-learning driver to make mistakes and recover much easier than a street tire will, this creates a reliance on the tire rather than the ability of the driver. Get good on street tires first and you'll find that r-compounds are much more fun and they will last you longer too.

Good street tires to use are the Kumho XS, Dunlop Z1 Star Spec, Hankook RS-3, Bridgestone RE-11.

And yes to answer your question, a 225/45 will be just fine on a 7" rim.

thanks a lot for the info!

i've been told the same thing about tires and i've been able to get used to my car with the Neo Gen's (280 tread wear) to the point that it feels like the tires are holding me back

at my last full track day at ASR i was able to "drift" into the bus stop (CCW) pretty much everytime because my tires didn't have the traction to enter it faster. i was able to run a 1:26.3 with stock brakes, a stock front sway W/ no rear sway and omni drag coilovers

A lot of the people there said my tires were holding me back as well but yes i was thinking of getting R-S3's

[LoooseGSR]

thanks a lot for the info!

i've been told the same thing about tires and i've been able to get used to my car with the Neo Gen's (280 tread wear) to the point that it feels like the tires are holding me back

at my last full track day at ASR i was able to "drift" into the bus stop (CCW) pretty much everytime because my tires didn't have the traction to enter it faster. i was able to run a 1:26.3 with stock brakes, a stock front sway W/ no rear sway and omni drag coilovers

A lot of the people there said my tires were holding me back as well but yes i was thinking of getting R-S3's

I want to be clear, a good solid street tire is going to be the ones I mentioned, anything over 200 treadwear is going to give you inconsistent feedback.

[mixedCRX]

I want to be clear, a good solid street tire is going to be the ones I mentioned, anything over 200 treadwear is going to give you inconsistent feedback.

ok so R-S3's it is thanks LoooseGSR

[Agent Smith]

I want to be clear, a good solid street tire is going to be the ones I mentioned, anything over 200 treadwear is going to give you inconsistent feedback.
:goodjob:


Regardless of compound, over working the tires (drifting & excessive over-steer or under-steer) will only bite you in the ass later on, resulting in slower lap times, and you'll be chewing through tires quicker. For 'most' turns you want to be on the verge of breaking traction without actually doing it.

You can learn a lot with a good street tire,play with suspension tuning (camber, caster, & toe) and see the effects it has on your lap times and handling characteristics without it costing you a fortune on r-comps. I love street tires, I had more fun on track last month at fir west driving on re-11's in an S2000 than I did with nt01's on my turbo integra.

[mixedCRX]

:goodjob:


Regardless of compound, over working the tires (drifting & excessive over-steer or under-steer) will only bite you in the ass later on, resulting in slower lap times, and you'll be chewing through tires quicker. For 'most' turns you want to be on the verge of breaking traction without actually doing it.

You can learn a lot with a good street tire,play with suspension tuning (camber, caster, & toe) and see the effects it has on your lap times and handling characteristics without it costing you a fortune on r-comps. I love street tires, I had more fun on track last month at fir west driving on re-11's in an S2000 than I did with nt01's on my turbo integra.

I've been thinking about putting more camber in the rear because its at 0 degrees right now and from what i can tell im not using the whole tire. not having traction is fun if your not looking for time so i understand what you mean about it losing time on the track

next for me is a new alignment and tires is what its looking at but for toe im not to sure on what id want for a FWD. i know that toe in, in the rear makes the rear end want to stay behind the front (less oversteer) and toe out is more oversteer but im not to sure what it will do for the front and with caster having more makes it more stable right? i have a concept but not the whole idea

is there a post that goes over all the alignment stuff or should i ask you guys all my questions?

[SlowCivicHmm]

Just to toss out there...my prior track setting on my EG:

Front-
+5* Caster
-4.5* Camber
1/16th Toe Out
8k Spring Rate
24mm GSR Swaybar w/Poly

Rear-
-3.5* Camber
0 Toe
6k Spring Rate
22mm Progress Swaybar w/Poly

+23mm Offset on 15x7 wheels - 205/50-15



It was perfect for me......lil loose and on the edge!!!

[mixedCRX]

Oh wow! Mine right now is all stock with -1.5 camber in the front and the rear is at 0 all I really need to look into changing all of that.