New Alignment Idea/ Setup Questions

[mixedCRX]

i wanted to know what you thought about my idea for alignment changes

________F____R
current
camber -1.3__0.0
idea
camber -1.6_-0.8

the reason for the change is because last time i was able to run all day i checked my tire temps and they were...

outside _ middle _ inside
118F __ 112F __ 112F - front tires
108F ___ 98F ___ 92F - rear tires

my toe and caster are both stock and idk what those measurements are.

for tires im going to go from neo gen's(280) to kumo XS's(180)
still 205/50R15... the reason im staying 205 is because i wanna get my alignment set up better so when i go to bigger rims and 225's i have a better idea of what im doing.

also the spring rates i have right now are one of these 3
Omni-Power Street Coilovers 448F/336R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Sport Coilovers 539F/448R (L/L)*
Omni-Power Drag Coilover 810F/810R (L/L)*

from SlowCivicHmm's suspension thread i was thinking about doing 600f/400r

im having over steer issues and thats my biggest problem now, there's probably more things im not picking up on but thats because im still very new to driving.

any thoughts?

thanks.

[SlowCivicHmm]

for what its worth...

I haven't ran anything less than -2.5 on my car.......

[Daddy_Digital]

wow..an actual tech thread. i dont know wtf ur talking about. but im sure ill learn something.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

IMO...front camber should be -2.0 to -3.0 and rear camber should be -1.5 to -2.5 (depending on tire).

Since you're going with Kumho XS, I say -2.5 front, -2.0 rear.

As far as toe goes...0 front and 0 rear is fine. Caster isn't that big of a deal IMO. Anything from +1 to +4 is fine by me.

[mixedCRX]

IMO...front camber should be -2.0 to -3.0 and rear camber should be -1.5 to -2.5 (depending on tire).

Since you're going with Kumho XS, I say -2.5 front, -2.0 rear.

As far as toe goes...0 front and 0 rear is fine. Caster isn't that big of a deal IMO. Anything from +1 to +4 is fine by me.

would you suggest a little toe in for the rear because of my over steer problem or should i just start with camber and caster first?

you said depending on the tire, is that because there side walls have different strengths or is it just tread wear?

more caster will help with turn in response right? or what does caster effect?

[LoooseGSR]

I'm not sure how many people realize this but caster, on a FWD is STATIC, meaning it can't be adjusted, that doesn't mean there aren't ways, but for the most part, caster is one of those things that is not really considered when setting up the alignment on a Honda.

Another thing, nearly all FWD cars are setup to UNDERSTEER and it will take quite a bit to get them to oversteer in a way that can potentially be called a problem. For example, Tony Lisa's EG Coupe Honda Challenge car is running a 32 mm rear sway bar, along with really stiff springs, his car is SETUP to oversteer, but it's not a problem.

Go with the settings Simon recommends, they're a common starting point. As nearly EVERYONE has said on here, get comfortable driving first, and make adjustments as you go. I can 100% guarantee that you cannot setup your car the best it will be before you ever drive on track, it's an evolving process.

[BlueTeg]

IMO...front camber should be -2.0 to -3.0 and rear camber should be -1.5 to -2.5 (depending on tire).

Since you're going with Kumho XS, I say -2.5 front, -2.0 rear.

As far as toe goes...0 front and 0 rear is fine. Caster isn't that big of a deal IMO. Anything from +1 to +4 is fine by me.


^ this.


To the OP: are you positive that your car is oversteering and not lift-throttle oversteering?

[ILIKETODRIVE]

To the OP: are you positive that your car is oversteering and not lift-throttle oversteering?

Yes...big difference. If you are in a steady-state corner and are on the throttle more than, say, 70% and the car is over-rotating on you, then you might have an oversteer "issue". If you're 70% or more on the throttle in corners and having to constantly compensate with steering inputs to keep the car pointed, then you might have an oversteer "issue". If you are in a steady-state corner and are applying roughly 70% or more throttle, then suddenly lift (or even gradually lift) and don't compensate with steering input, that is driver induced (and seemingly unwanted) oversteer.

I like using lift-throttle oversteer as a technique to hold a tight (and hopefully) quick line in certain corners. Similar (in end result) to left-foot braking but less fancy.

[mixedCRX]

the only reason i asked if i should do caster is because i have a traction bar, but thanks for letting me know its not a big deal and that stocks ok.

You guy's are 100% right! I never really thought about there being a difference but now i know that i need a driver mod lol or I need to come to a NASA event soon.

I've driven a little and i know that how my alignment is now is not working at all. More camber all around will help my lift oversteer be less violent im assuming.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

the only reason i asked if i should do caster is because i have a traction bar, but thanks for letting me know its not a big deal and that stocks ok.

You guy's are 100% right! I never really thought about there being a difference but now i know that i need a driver mod lol or I need to come to a NASA event soon.

I've driven a little and i know that how my alignment is now is not working at all. More camber all around will help my lift oversteer be less violent im assuming.

Exactly right on the camber relation to lift-throttle oversteer. More camber = less rapid.

I plan on having (and used to have) -2.75 front and -1.5 rear. That was (and will be) a DC4 with no camber arms (too many points for TT/PT classing). Ideally, if I could use camber arms (and will if I do Honda Challenge) I would have -3 front and -2 rear. Since I like to use lift-throttle oversteer, I like to have a tad less camber in the rear to help initiate that.

[Agent Smith]

Adding negative camber in the rear will help your over steer problem dramatically, running zero camber rear & 1.5+front is just asking for street tires to slide around. I defiantly agree with simon on alignment, try something like -2.5 F & -2 R and make adjustments from there. on my civic I loved my 3 degrees f&r, turn in and corner stability was fantastic, but the inside of the tire definitely gets hotter and wears a bit more.

I also would advise AGAINST making toe adjustments soley for "oversteer" problems, having toe in or out can be less than optimal, run a slight hint of toe in on the rear if you want to help things feel more stable, but not much & I'm against toe out on the rear at all, that's just not cool.

another thing to consider is changing tire sizes / wheel sizes can also change your alignment specs if you have a taller or shorter or wider tire.

[mixedCRX]

Adding negative camber in the rear will help your over steer problem dramatically, running zero camber rear & 1.5+front is just asking for street tires to slide around. I defiantly agree with simon on alignment, try something like -2.5 F & -2 R and make adjustments from there. on my civic I loved my 3 degrees f&r, turn in and corner stability was fantastic, but the inside of the tire definitely gets hotter and wears a bit more.

I also would advise AGAINST making toe adjustments soley for "oversteer" problems, having toe in or out can be less than optimal, run a slight hint of toe in on the rear if you want to help things feel more stable, but not much & I'm against toe out on the rear at all, that's just not cool.

another thing to consider is changing tire sizes / wheel sizes can also change your alignment specs if you have a taller or shorter or wider tire.

Yes I know that toe out would do nothing but probably give me a true oversteering problem so none of that for me. I am just going to change my camber to the -2.5f/-2r for now and do some events to see how I like it.

So when I get my alignment I need to make sure i have whatever rim and tire will be on the car at the event. I will still be fine to put my dd rims on and drive to the event and swap them again and not have a different alignment right?

And thanks for all your help guys!

[BlueTeg]

So when I get my alignment I need to make sure i have whatever rim and tire will be on the car at the event.

I will still be fine to put my dd rims on and drive to the event and swap them again and not have a different alignment right?


Correct

You go to the alignment shop and have them set your alignment at X.
You swap wheels and tires for your DD setup and the alignment will have a VERY slight deviation to Y.
(assuming you don't nail any curbs or huge potholes during that time) You put your track wheels/tires back on when you get to the event and you're back at alignment X.

[mixedCRX]

Correct

You go to the alignment shop and have them set your alignment at X.
You swap wheels and tires for your DD setup and the alignment will have a VERY slight deviation to Y.
(assuming you don't nail any curbs or huge potholes during that time) You put your track wheels/tires back on when you get to the event and you're back at alignment X.

Awesome!

Thanks again for all your guys help, I love asking questions on here.

I hope to be out at a NASA event by February! :bunny2: