how often should abs be worked

[894ws]

I've been doing some reading and still had some questions how often should the abs and obliques be worked. Some say that it is better to cut all the fat out before actually training the abs suposedly if you work them out and you are fat you make it harder for them to show. Just wanted to hear your opinons on how much is too much for the abs. I would also like to hear what has worked best in the past i.e what exercises thanks

[Spec C]

I've been doing some reading and still had some questions how often should the abs and obliques be worked. Some say that it is better to cut all the fat out before actually training the abs suposedly if you work them out and you are fat you make it harder for them to show. Just wanted to hear your opinons on how much is too much for the abs. I would also like to hear what has worked best in the past i.e what exercises thanks
lol.. I have never heard that one.. Look at some of these elite powerlifters, or even bodybuilders in the off season. Many can have the outlines of their abs still visable, at a higher bodyfat, because they carry a tremendous amount of muscle mass.


I work abs like anything else. Weighted/heavy. I also don't over train them, they need rest like any other muscle. Don't forget your abs are getting worked on things like squats, deadlifts, etc.

I do lower abs on one of my training days, and upper on another.

I like decline weighted sit-ups, weighted hanging leg lifts, and 1 or two ab machines, that I feel I can go heavy on.

This is my opinion on the subject, and what works for me.

[nelsmar]

If you are fat you simply cannot see them. However the ab's are used in amlost every type of lift. Having a strong core is extremely important to being physically fit. Even if you dont work them they will get worked on due to the fact they are used so frequently in day to day activity.

Think of it this way, if you build them now, you will have more muscle by the time you get to cutting. Vs cutting and THEN building them. that takes 3 cycles vs 2. Also not to mention the higher weight in muscle mass = higher idle calorie consumption. The more muscle you have, the more you need to maintain your idle body weight. So cutting can be easier with more muscle mass.

When i was pretty active i would intake 4-5k calories a day and gain 0lb on a weekly avg.

[H22apower]

work your abs 2 to 3 times a week and most important loose all the fat you can otherwise you are going to built fat and not be able to see those coveted packs

[894ws]

thanks for the input. I guess ill just work them out like any other group

[dtruong112]

2 times a week for me. Upper and lower one day and obliques on the other day.

[bb4arson]

i only work them out 1 time a week .. sometimes if i have time twice.. i do very heavy abs lifts.. never do more than 15 reps. ever.

[nelsmar]

I wish I could have pushed my abs harder when i used to lift. 2 bulging disks ftl :( Even with perfect form it was extremely painful. Damn I need to get back on the bench.

[krazyblurtz]

I wish I could have pushed my abs harder when i used to lift. 2 bulging disks ftl :( Even with perfect form it was extremely painful. Damn I need to get back on the bench.

You're telling me! kypho-scoliosis and a few other spinal problems here :\

[bb4arson]

^ouch

must suck to work out with back problems..

cant really get those heavy compound lifts :/

[krazyblurtz]

^ouch

must suck to work out with back problems..

cant really get those heavy compound lifts :/

You said it god damnit!!! 2-3 yrs of natural lifting dedication without squats, cleans all those!
Tons of other stuff that is off the list that I had to find out my own way.


.... Lots of pain just sitting/standing anytime. BUUUUT without heavy resistance I feel empty inside.


So now I work out against doctors advice haha.

[ejFliP]

Best way to just burn fat?
Cardio? Just straight up treadmill do the trick?

[tucsondude]

if you want to feel like a weak pussy go take a pilades class with a bunch of old women. lol, abs looking good though....

[Spec C]

Best way to just burn fat?
Cardio? Just straight up treadmill do the trick?
Diet, is first and foremost the most important part.

Cardio comes down to a matter of preference. Some people prefer HIIT, some prefer low intensity steady state(LISS) cardio, etc.

I would probably start out with 30 min 3-4 times a week, incline walking on the treadmill(above 3.0 speed) at a fairly high incline, without holding on. From there you can add a day or two of HIIT, or increase the duration of the low intensity, it is really up to you, and how your progress is going.

[ejFliP]

Diet, is first and foremost the most important part.

Cardio comes down to a matter of preference. Some people prefer HIIT, some prefer low intensity steady state(LISS) cardio, etc.

I would probably start out with 30 min 3-4 times a week, incline walking on the treadmill(above 3.0 speed) at a fairly high incline, without holding on. From there you can add a day or two of HIIT, or increase the duration of the low intensity, it is really up to you, and how your progress is going.

I'm doing LISS at the moment, steady 7.0 jog for a 1.5miles then turn into HITT at a 10.0 for about 2minutes then slow down for about 1minute.

As for the diet, I want to get cut..I'm at 175lb. I heard I'm supposed to take in about 3kcalories a day..does that seem about right? My diet restricts me from eating that much, I take in about half maybe 2k at most.

Am I dieting the wrong way for the route I want to take?

[bb4arson]

^^ make sure to spread your meals out thru the day . dont take in a certain amount of calories all at once than starve your self .

[Spec C]

I'm doing LISS at the moment, steady 7.0 jog for a 1.5miles then turn into HITT at a 10.0 for about 2minutes then slow down for about 1minute.

As for the diet, I want to get cut..I'm at 175lb. I heard I'm supposed to take in about 3kcalories a day..does that seem about right? My diet restricts me from eating that much, I take in about half maybe 2k at most.

Am I dieting the wrong way for the route I want to take?
I would do the HIIT more like a 15sec 100% sprint, followed by a 45sec jog/walk. Use something like the elliptical or bike, as it is easier to change speeds, quickly. Repeat that 15 or so times.

As for diet. It is hard to say how many calories to start at exactly. Age, activity level, metabolism, weight, etc. All come into consideration.

Anytime I start a diet, I start calories on the high side, atleast for the first few weeks. This gives your metabolism time to "reset", and lets you make sure you are not starting too low. Depending on what happens after the first couple of weeks, I will adjust calories from there.

You can try and start at 3k calories, and then make any adjustments, based on your results.

^^ make sure to spread your meals out thru the day . dont take in a certain amount of calories all at once than starve your self .I am playing around with the exact opposite approach. I never thought I would, but after doing some research on "Intermittent fasting" and seeing first hand experiences with it, from people who I trust, I decided to give it a try.

Let me pre-face this, with it goes against everything I have ever believed in..lol But I am always up for trying new things, in order to learn as much as I can about diet and nutrition.

Basically I fast all day, with just 1-2 small meals consisting of a small amount of greek yogurt, or protein powder, with some berries, or other low GI fruit. Then at night, after a 16-20hr fast, eating one large meal, containing the majority of my calories for the day(2-2500 calories).

The large meal is very flexable. I basically eat whatever I want. Usually a large salad, 1lb of chicken, steak, or pork, with white rice, pasta, potato, etc. But a triple meat chipotle burito, or panda express, is not uncommon.

Eating like this takes a lot of the stress out of eating. You are not worried about getting in all these meals, bringing all this food every where you go. Weighing out all these meals, etc.

Pre, intra, and post workout I consume BCAA's. And have lost little to no muscle, depsite doing a TON of intense cardio, and not lifting but 1 day a week.

I have been doing this for around a month now, and am having surprisingly good results thus far. I am going to keep experimenting with it for a while.

Can read more about it here.
http://www.leangains.com/

and also google "warrior diet" as it is a similar concept.


Additionally, there was research done by Layne Norton(natural body builder), which suggests fewer large meals, may infact be more beneficial then more, spread out, smaller feedings.
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/protein_size_&_frequency.pdf

[die in a dick fire noob]

i really like the warrior diet. i just read up on it looks sick. i'm gonna buy the book to learn more.

[Spec C]

i really like the warrior diet. i just read up on it looks sick. i'm gonna buy the book to learn more.
That is more or less what I am following, with some modifications, to help gain/maintain muscle.

[die in a dick fire noob]

i mostly had questions on the site you linked with the testimonial of the kid who cut down. he said he was consuming 15g eaa or 10g i can't remember. but i mostly wanna know what to do to get that 15 or 10g before a workout. just supps? or is there a food that would be better than another. that's i guess why i need to buy the book.

right now i basically eat an apple, work out, then drink my protien shake. eat small meals throughout the day and one slightly larger one around 6pm. problem is i'm only at about 1500 calories. finding more calories is going to be tough for me, i'm not a picky eater but i have always ate sparingly.

we're totally off topic but i think this is helpful information for the OP

[Spec C]

i mostly had questions on the site you linked with the testimonial of the kid who cut down. he said he was consuming 15g eaa or 10g i can't remember. but i mostly wanna know what to do to get that 15 or 10g before a workout. just supps? or is there a food that would be better than another. that's i guess why i need to buy the book.

right now i basically eat an apple, work out, then drink my protien shake. eat small meals throughout the day and one slightly larger one around 6pm. problem is i'm only at about 1500 calories. finding more calories is going to be tough for me, i'm not a picky eater but i have always ate sparingly.

we're totally off topic but i think this is helpful information for the OP
You want to take BCAA or EAA in the form of a supplement, because they are free form.

There are MANY products, that provide BCAA or EAA's, from bulk powder to flavored versions containing other ingredients.

Here are some of the more popular options:

Flavored BCAA products:
I have been using this for my BCAA supplement latley. I like the high concentraiton of Leucine, and that it mixes clear.
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/usplabs/modern-bcaa-428-grams.html?sel=3437

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/scivation/xtend-1016-grams.html?sel=440
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/xtreme-formulations/ice-2-lb.html?sel=274

Bulk powder BCAA(unflavored):
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/nutraplanet/bcaa-s-1-kilo.html
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/omega-sports/alpha-series-bcaa-1-kg.html

I like this for a bulk product, as it is instatized, and produced by Ajinomoto so it is of the highest quality.
http://www.primordialperformance.com/store/ibcaa.html

EAA Supplements(flavored)
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/controlled-labs/purple-wraath-1084-grams.html?sel=1759
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/legal-gear/bc-eaa-389-g.html?sel=2277
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/univ/eaa.html

Bulk EAA(unflavored)
http://www.trueprotein.com/product_details.aspx?cid=25&pid=6817

[die in a dick fire noob]

http://www.mediafire.com/?o9dmyy28o1d6zvo

[bmxican]

wow, why complicate things, get your protein in and count calories!!! calories in vs calories out.

[ejFliP]

Anyone use any type of thermogenic to help get rid of that "layer"?
Was looking into those, but if they're show any signs of muscle loss or anything like that I'll steer clear.

[Spec C]

Anyone use any type of thermogenic to help get rid of that "layer"?
Was looking into those, but if they're show any signs of muscle loss or anything like that I'll steer clear.
I am not a huge fan of stimulants, but that is a personal preference.

I have heard nothing but good things about this stack, which doesn't over due CNS stimulants, like most fat burners.
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/genomyx/the-fat-destroyer-stack-dcp-heat-stack.html

Or you could run something like one of these products, that boosts thyroid hormones.
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/pesupplments/alpha-t2-90-capsules.html

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/iforce-nutrition/tt-33-120-caps.html

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/thermolife/dicana-90-caps.html

[die in a dick fire noob]

personally that shit scares me lol.

[Spec C]

personally that shit scares me lol.

What's that? Things that mess with the thyroid?

[die in a dick fire noob]

yeah, i just don't like any of those chemicals, i've read some bad stuff about them.

[bmxican]

then just have caffine with asprin in the morn. I lost 105lbs and didn't need to "stimulants" just dedication and consistency.

[Spec C]

then just have caffine with asprin in the morn. I lost 105lbs and didn't need to "stimulants" just dedication and consistency.
Caffeine is a stimulant..lol

Congrats on the massive weight loss, that is something to be proud of.

That said, I am not sure what your bodyfat is currently, but losing fat from a super high bodyfat, to for example 15% bodyfat, is MUCH different then going from 15% to say 6%. For most people, unless genetically predisposed to be lean, it becomes a fight to get down deep into the single digits.

A quality fat burner can help someone with that task. It shouldn't be a replacement for diet, consistency, or dedication, however.

[die in a dick fire noob]

Caffeine is a stimulant..lol

Congrats on the massive weight loss, that is something to be proud of.

That said, I am not sure what your bodyfat is currently, but losing fat from a super high bodyfat, to for example 15% bodyfat, is MUCH different then going from 15% to say 6%. For most people, unless genetically predisposed to be lean, it becomes a fight to get down deep into the single digits.

A quality fat burner can help someone with that task. It shouldn't be a replacement for diet, consistency, or dedication, however.

i lol'd at both the stimulant part as well as the broken english sentence structure.

i'm still just wondering what i should eat at night, it's hard for me to find something with that many calories.

[Spec C]

i lol'd at both the stimulant part as well as the broken english sentence structure.

i'm still just wondering what i should eat at night, it's hard for me to find something with that many calories.


I can easily eat 2k plus calories in that one meal, and still be hungry.

Last night I for my feast I had:
Big salad with croutons, and oil based dressing.
1lb skirt steak
2 low carb flour tortillas
Shredded Cheddar cheese

1hr later, prior to bed.

50g protein, mixed with 200g Greek yogurt, with 30g almonds.

The steak alone was probably 900 calories.






Don't forget depending on how many "under eating" meals you have, you may consume 300-900 calories there.

How many calories are you shooting for?

What is your current weight, and goals?



The whole point of eating like this is to take out all the normal complications of dieting. No real weighing of foods, eating 6+ times a day, being super limited to what you eat, etc.

I pretty much eat what I feel like for dinner, just trying to get a lot of protein in(1lb of meat). I eat fairly clean by nature, but tonight I am going to kill a triple meat burrito at Chipotle, with some Fro-Yo for dessert..lol

[die in a dick fire noob]

my current weight is like 158 down from 180. i'd like to meet in the middle maybe 165-170 would be fine but with more muscle gain.

i can limit my intake during the day to about 300 calories or maybe 400. that's what i normally do. but like just now when i got home i ate some eggs, 2 pieces of whole grain toast, 4 pieces of sausage. i could eat it's just the annoying part of cooking shit that's my problem i guess. but i guess i'll just stock up at costco on meat and go for it lol.

[bmxican]

Caffeine is a stimulant..lol

Congrats on the massive weight loss, that is something to be proud of.

That said, I am not sure what your bodyfat is currently, but losing fat from a super high bodyfat, to for example 15% bodyfat, is MUCH different then going from 15% to say 6%. For most people, unless genetically predisposed to be lean, it becomes a fight to get down deep into the single digits.

A quality fat burner can help someone with that task. It shouldn't be a replacement for diet, consistency, or dedication, however.


dude i've been down to 8% bodyfat, and I know how hard it is to do. yes caffeine is a stimulant, but a much more simple for than taking a propriety blend of some shit that companys put out. Might as well try an ECA stack or get some clen/t3 if you are really serious.

[bmxican]

i lol'd at both the stimulant part as well as the broken english sentence structure.

i'm still just wondering what i should eat at night, it's hard for me to find something with that many calories.

yes, talk shit yet you are still in limbo on what to eat at night? hah, very little carbs and high protein you dummy

[bmxican]

the bullshit about not eating 6+ times a day! HAH! yea we will see how far that gets you. just my breakfast alone is 4 whole eggs and 6 egg whites along with 8 ounces of black beans, and couple strips of bacon. Eat your big meals in the morning.

[bmxican]

I can easily eat 2k plus calories in that one meal, and still be hungry.

Last night I for my feast I had:
Big salad with croutons, and oil based dressing.
1lb skirt steak
2 low carb flour tortillas
Shredded Cheddar cheese

1hr later, prior to bed.

50g protein, mixed with 200g Greek yogurt, with 30g almonds.

The steak alone was probably 900 calories.






Don't forget depending on how many "under eating" meals you have, you may consume 300-900 calories there.

How many calories are you shooting for?

What is your current weight, and goals?



The whole point of eating like this is to take out all the normal complications of dieting. No real weighing of foods, eating 6+ times a day, being super limited to what you eat, etc.

I pretty much eat what I feel like for dinner, just trying to get a lot of protein in(1lb of meat). I eat fairly clean by nature, but tonight I am going to kill a triple meat burrito at Chipotle, with some Fro-Yo for dessert..lol


take out the complications!? :th_supergay:

[die in a dick fire noob]

yes, talk shit yet you are still in limbo on what to eat at night? hah, very little carbs and high protein you dummy

that's what i already eat, i was asking what to eat for a higher calorie count, "dummy."

simple calorie deficits work to lose weight we know this. carbs are bad if you're trying to lose weight we also know this. i was asking him about the current strategy he is trying. not about how to lose weight or bulk traditionally.

you can keep tried and true methods thats fine, they are exactly that, but i'm looking into trying new things man. or should i say maing :)

[Spec C]

dude i've been down to 8% bodyfat, and I know how hard it is to do. yes caffeine is a stimulant, but a much more simple for than taking a propriety blend of some shit that companys put out. Might as well try an ECA stack or get some clen/t3 if you are really serious.
First off, you are not talking to a noob here, you are not telling me anything I don't already know.. I see you on some of the same boards I am on.. Intense Muscle for instance, I have been on there since before you could drive..lol

Secondly.

I am not a huge fan of proprietary blends, for obvious reasons. There is only 1 product I posted that has a proprietary blend, and it is only on the Diido. I also don't like products that are heavy on the stimulants.

I know for me, ECA is not an option as it makes me feel like absolute SHIT.

T3/Clen? Might as well add some DNP too, huh? lol

I personally don't even like supplements, for the most part. I stick to the basics, BCAA/EAA, protein, fish oil, etc. Stuff that has actual merit.


the bullshit about not eating 6+ times a day! HAH! yea we will see how far that gets you. just my breakfast alone is 4 whole eggs and 6 egg whites along with 8 ounces of black beans, and couple strips of bacon. Eat your big meals in the morning. LOL! I will see how far it takes me, that is the point. My goal right now is to lean down, while holding onto muscle and strength. BJJ has been my main focus, and DC training is on the back burner.


Like I said previously, this is something I am playing with. It is something I NEVER thought I would even try. I can tell you this, my strength is damn near what it was, and I have been training sporadically at best, since BJJ has been taking up the majority of my time.


There is more then 1 path from point A to point B. Remember that.


I know how to eat, and structure a diet, this is stuff I have been dealing with for a LONG time. But I am open minded to trying new things, to see how they work for ME. I know my body well. If it isn't working out for me, I will just go back to my normal, more traditional eating habits.

Talk to Chirs Aceto, Dave Palumbo, Shelby Starnes, Skip Hill, Scott Stevenson(homon) all some of the top prep guys, and ask them their beliefs on diet, and I bet you for the most part, all have different strategies, and principles, on getting someone peeled, and on stage.


Ie. Low carb, Carb cycle, low fat, Big refeeds, small refeeds, no refeeds, etc. Lots of cardio, little cardio, low intensity, high intensity, etc.

[Spec C]

that's what i already eat, i was asking what to eat for a higher calorie count, "dummy."

simple calorie deficits work to lose weight we know this. carbs are bad if you're trying to lose weight we also know this. i was asking him about the current strategy he is trying. not about how to lose weight or bulk traditionally.

you can keep tried and true methods thats fine, they are exactly that, but i'm looking into trying new things man. or should i say maing :)
There is nothing wrong with trying different approaches, to see what you respond best to.

I used to think I had to eat a ton of carbs, to grow/gain strength. Then I worked with Skip Hill, who uses a lower carb approach. Turns out, I respond MUCH better, and FEEL better, on low carb. And that is my go-to approach to dieting as I don't tolerate carbs well.. I take in all my carbs post workout, and a weekly carb refeed.

It works for me, but may not work so well for the next guy.

Additionally what needs to be taken into account is ones goals. Would a guy trying to run a 25 mile marathon, eat the same as a 250lb bodybuilder, trying to hit 280lbs? NO.

[krazyblurtz]

G'day Mate!

[bb4arson]

you guys make my diet regimen look like shit lol
my simple diet..
8 am wake up whey protien shake with 3 scoops of powdered oats in milk.
10 am peanut butter sandwich whole wheat
1 pm peanut butter sandwich whole wheat
4pm chicken breast
630 pm protien shake with 2 scoops of powdered oats after workout
as soon as i get home chicken breast
before bed cottage cheese with casien shake

[Spec C]

you guys make my diet regimen look like shit lol
my simple diet..
8 am wake up whey protien shake with 3 scoops of powdered oats in milk.
10 am peanut butter sandwich whole wheat
1 pm peanut butter sandwich whole wheat
4pm chicken breast
630 pm protien shake with 2 scoops of powdered oats after workout
as soon as i get home chicken breast
before bed cottage cheese with casien shake

If it works for you then that is what matters . As you get more advanced you may need to lock it down a bit more, or try different things in order to keep progressing

Really the only thing I would personally alter is your 10am/1pm/4pm meals are kind of incomplete. I'd add a protein source to the first two(pb sandwiches) as you are only getting trace amounts from the pb, and either a carb or fat source to the chicken breast meal depending on what you need.

Any diet is only good if you can follow it.

[bb4arson]

If it works for you then that is what matters . As you get more advanced you may need to lock it down a bit more, or try different things in order to keep progressing

Really the only thing I would personally alter is your 10am/1pm/4pm meals are kind of incomplete. I'd add a protein source to the first two(pb sandwiches) as you are only getting trace amounts from the pb, and either a carb or fat source to the chicken breast meal depending on what you need.

Any diet is only good if you can follow it.
the 10 am 1 pm 4 pm was mostly due to i could only sneak certain foods in at certain times at work ... what do you recommend . i still feel noob to dieting . im on a cut now .. trying to get the abs is my goal now. but ive been lacking in cardio lately. i was suppose to run and stuff thru the whole week but i got a unexpected fever wth!

ooo i forgot to mention bananas for carbs aswell.. and i also consume like 4 fish oil pills a day

i do eat eggs but not as much as i would want to because sometimes they taste really gross in the mornings.

[Spec C]

the 10 am 1 pm 4 pm was mostly due to i could only sneak certain foods in at certain times at work ... what do you recommend . i still feel noob to dieting . im on a cut now .. trying to get the abs is my goal now. but ive been lacking in cardio lately. i was suppose to run and stuff thru the whole week but i got a unexpected fever wth!

ooo i forgot to mention bananas for carbs aswell.. and i also consume like 4 fish oil pills a day

i do eat eggs but not as much as i would want to because sometimes they taste really gross in the mornings.

Honestly, as much as a whole protein source would be good, if you need to drink a shake, it is going to be better then nothing...imo. If you have casein I would drink that, as it will give you a nice, steady release of amino's.

I feel you 100% on the eggs. That is why I started to just drink them. It is rough eating 10-12 egg whites every day, for years on end. I get the pasteurized(no risk of salmonella) ones in the carton(egg whites, NOT egg beaters), and instead of having a 2 scoop shake, I will have 8oz egg whites(26g protein), mixed with 20-30g worth of protein powder to flavor the whites. Additionally you can just pound them, or flavor with splenda, and a splash of vanilla extract.

Another option which is really good, and should be easy enough to sneak in, and eat with a sandwich would be some fat free greek yogurt, which you can add a scoop of your protein to to flavor it. You will get 15-20g of protein from the yogurt(casein), and however much you want from the protein. I pretty much eat this at least once a day.

Overall the diet is not really bad, but if you stall out, on fat loss, there is some things that you can tweak to get things rolling again IMO, so just keep an eye on your progress.

[bb4arson]

thanks for the advice man how much do egg whites usually run?


yah ive been keeping track of my body progress and im starting to see my rib muscles again so i know im doing a pretty well job i guess and i could see the form of my lower stomach starting to form out would post a pic but .im sick and i just ate alot so i could revive my body.

[Spec C]

thanks for the advice man how much do egg whites usually run?


yah ive been keeping track of my body progress and im starting to see my rib muscles again so i know im doing a pretty well job i guess and i could see the form of my lower stomach starting to form out would post a pic but .im sick and i just ate alot so i could revive my body.
At sprouts the large carton is usually like $4.99. There are like 4 cups in them IIRC, and each cup is 26g of protein.

[theres no snow]

after reading this whole post i think i'm going to start working my abs again! lol

[linch]

Usually work them out 1 time in a week, But sometimes if i have time then do twice in a week.
Prefer to do heavy abs lifts but never do more than 15 reps. ever

[bb4arson]

i only work them out 1 time a week .. sometimes if i have time twice.. i do very heavy abs lifts.. never do more than 15 reps. ever.

Usually work them out 1 time in a week, But sometimes if i have time then do twice in a week.
Prefer to do heavy abs lifts but never do more than 15 reps. ever

strong troll bitting my style

[j-dizzle]

Inb4thedeadthreadjokes