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View Full Version : help. ls vtec


alv!
02-21-2011, 12:36 AM
Just got a simple question. What head would you suggest to use for a ls vtec? Gsr or b16 head?

HeikDiesel
02-21-2011, 05:42 AM
gsr yields more compression. So your choice basically

Colten79
02-21-2011, 07:08 AM
is the bottom end stock? Plans on the future build (do you plan on building it)? N/A or boost?

alv!
02-21-2011, 01:39 PM
is the bottom end stock? Plans on the future build (do you plan on building it)? N/A or boost?

Bottom ens is stock
I wanna keep it NA

Lost Rager
02-25-2011, 02:26 PM
go with the gsr head. more compression:) maybe get a port and polish:)

lramon_1
02-26-2011, 01:18 AM
If your gonna use the vtec head with stock pistons, I would recomend you have the valve reliefs on the pistons cut back, ls or b20 with stock pistons, if you don't do this, the valve will kiss the pistons, seen it everytime, and it will cause a bad idle and eventuallt break a valve head off in time. The proccedure is called "fly cut".

Copy/paste.

Lost Rager
02-26-2011, 01:37 AM
you gotta fly cut the pistons if is stock.
what do you mean??? :/

DarkAngel
02-26-2011, 02:42 AM
what do you mean??? :/

Dood he already stated what it was. If you dont know just google piston valve relief.

" ....... I would recomend you have the valve reliefs on the pistons cut back, ls or b20 with stock pistons, if you don't do this, the valve will kiss the pistons, seen it everytime, and it will cause a bad idle and eventuallt break a valve head off in time. "

Lost Rager
02-26-2011, 02:48 AM
Dood he already stated what it was. If you dont know just google piston valve relief.

" ....... I would recomend you have the valve reliefs on the pistons cut back, ls or b20 with stock pistons, if you don't do this, the valve will kiss the pistons, seen it everytime, and it will cause a bad idle and eventuallt break a valve head off in time. "

sorry he edited after i posted!!!!!!!!! would this happen with CTR pistons???

Mr.Burner
02-26-2011, 09:45 PM
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx340/Mr_Burner/DSCF4199.jpg

And no this wont be need with pistons that came from a vtec motor. There valve reliefs are already bigger from the factory.

only the LS and B20's should have this, with the oem piston.

Dead Bird
02-26-2011, 10:47 PM
is that my block?

lramon_1
02-27-2011, 12:04 AM
so you dont have to pull the pistons out?

Mr.Burner
02-27-2011, 01:12 AM
is that my block?

show is


and no you dont have to pull them out if you know what your doing.

gunsup0331
02-27-2011, 01:19 AM
research on honda-tech p2v and v2v.

probly will blow your mind at this stage of your honda life

i dont think any oem cams will cause p2v contact but if you step up to big aftermarket cams you def need to check your piston to valve clearances as shown here http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p69/azgunner0331/cars/11112009200.jpg

gunsup0331
02-27-2011, 01:22 AM
b16 head if you are over 11:1 comp and gsr if just head slapping

if you start getting into aftermarket pistons and cams and you still have a stock head, the pr3 flows better stock so you will want to use the b16 head

Mr.Burner
02-27-2011, 01:41 AM
I still wouldnt chance not fly cutting a oem piston. I've had a personal b20v that had the valves nik the tops of the pistons.

But at the same time, why would you wanna run the factory piston? isnt that the whole point of a build?

B16 head
B20 block RS 84's
CTR cams
good tune, this will yield some good power. its been said over and over again on here lol

Dead Bird
02-27-2011, 06:35 PM
the pr3 flows better stock

can you show me proof of this prease?

intenseneal
03-07-2011, 06:35 PM
With stock cams on Ls or B20 pistons you will not have any issues. TypeR cams and stage 2 or larger cams and you will. Also dont deck the heck out of the head for more compression this can cause clearance issues also.

intenseneal
03-15-2011, 07:34 AM
can you show me proof of this prease?
It is common knowledge that the PR3/B16/Type R head flows better than the P72 GSR head. Honda choose the PR3 head for the Type R motors for a reason. However the P72 head does yield a slightly higher compression than the PR3.

Dead Bird
03-16-2011, 10:15 AM
It is common knowledge that the PR3/B16/Type R head flows better than the P72 GSR head. Honda choose the PR3 head for the Type R motors for a reason. However the P72 head does yield a slightly higher compression than the PR3.

i mean i know word gets around. but have you ever seen any proof of this? Have you ever seen a flowchart of both b16, and gsr in stock, bare trim? Because I have. The graphs I was shown were damn near identical. The lines overlapped eachother in several spots, and never seperated much at all from one another. they flow damn near the same.


no one asked about a type r head.
said b16 or gsr.

intenseneal
03-16-2011, 05:08 PM
I have not personally. However Tim at Xact Dyno has explained to me the difference between the 2 heads. B16 head flows air at a higher velocity, the GSR head flows the same amount of air volume but at a slower velocity. So on a flow chart graph they look almost the same. The difference is the B16 can move the same amount of air into the combustion cambers faster and more efficiently than the GSR head. The GSR head makes up for this with higher compression and slightly, very slightly better cams. So at the end of the day they both perform on a dyno nearly the same. Now if you have a higher compression motor with bigger cams the B16 will show improved power over the GSR. The Type R head is a B16 head same casting. The only difference apart from the Type R valve train and cams is the the head is hand polished by Honda. The flow characteristics of the B16 head is why Honda used it over the GSR head for the B16B and B18C5. They are both great heads and will yield good gains. I like the B16 due to the easy of swapping. No need to wire in for the GSR mani or swap to a Skunk2 mani, jmo

honduh_head
03-17-2011, 06:48 PM
I have not personally. However Tim at Xact Dyno has explained to me the difference between the 2 heads. B16 head flows air at a higher velocity, the GSR head flows the same amount of air volume but at a slower velocity. So on a flow chart graph they look almost the same. The difference is the B16 can move the same amount of air into the combustion cambers faster and more efficiently than the GSR head. The GSR head makes up for this with higher compression and slightly, very slightly better cams. So at the end of the day they both perform on a dyno nearly the same. Now if you have a higher compression motor with bigger cams the B16 will show improved power over the GSR. The Type R head is a B16 head same casting. The only difference apart from the Type R valve train and cams is the the head is hand polished by Honda. The flow characteristics of the B16 head is why Honda used it over the GSR head for the B16B and B18C5. They are both great heads and will yield good gains. I like the B16 due to the easy of swapping. No need to wire in for the GSR mani or swap to a Skunk2 mani, jmo

somebody at honda tell you the reasoning for using it? maybe it was because the pr3 head was designed years before the p72, and when they started design testing for the type rizzle they had way more pr3 heads laying around to destroy for r and d (their factory port work). i have yet to see real evidence that one is better than the other, because in the end they're NEVER tested properly.

cervantes 49
03-17-2011, 07:23 PM
i have a b16 in my ek and i want to get a ls block for my head ..... my head has BC stage 2 cams valve springs and retainers ......would i have to do anything when the ls block is with the b16 head ..... like checking valve clearence

intenseneal
03-18-2011, 07:21 AM
I like I said apples to apples at the end of the day on a dyno PR3 and P72 heads put the same numbers down.
Cervantes 49, valve clearance should be fine. If you want to up the compression us your B16 pistons in the B18 block with new rings. Make sure to have the block prepped and pistons check by an engine machine shop.

intenseneal
03-18-2011, 08:53 PM
Here is an interesting article I found compairing the B16 and GSR head.
http://spooledupracing.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=260

Dead Bird
03-20-2011, 02:05 AM
Here is an interesting article I found compairing the B16 and GSR head.
http://spooledupracing.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=260

ok so in the end,

they flow damn near the same.



the real things to look for when going VTEC, are simple. Don't worry about which head you are choosing. Make sure you get one in good working condition. If you have access to an inexpensive aftermarket intake manifold setup, perhaps get the head that matches that. If you are building gradually over time, either or will not make a circumstancial difference.

The reason I prefer to run the b16 head instead of a gsr? Waaay more IM's available most of the time. Yes, most companies make a manifold for both styles, but think of how many more b16's there are than gsr's. The pr3 has been made since what, 1989? So 12 years, in different civics, del sols, and even integras(b16a, b17a1, b16a2, b16a3, b16b, b18c(spec R), b18c5). They are more vast, as are their matching manifolds. And if on a strict budget, an ITR IM can work as a temporary, less expensive substitution. the p72 was only on integra GSR's from 94-01. 7 years, gsr in usdm, sir-g in japan. Only two models. (I'm not including the different euro/australian/wtf ever other ones). Chances are, a good b16 head will be found easier, and you can get a better than factory intake manifold easier as well.


If you have no budget, well, 2 things.

1. I have no idea why you are wasting your time with a B-series anyways.
2. Go to the dealer and order a brand new Type R head. Fill with desired aftermarket goodies. Get walked by k's

honduh_head
03-20-2011, 03:18 PM
Get walked by k's

lmao. this. /thread

Spoolinls
03-23-2011, 09:28 PM
Idk if i should go b16 or gsr my bottom end is a b18b that has je pistons h beam rods n arp head stud any suggestuons

Spoolinls
03-23-2011, 10:28 PM
I found a obd0 b16a head for 250 should i jump on it or get a obd1

intenseneal
03-24-2011, 10:14 AM
Go for it as long as it is complete you will be fine. You will need a OBD1 intake mani. All sensors are the same on OBD0, OBD1 and OBD2 B16 heads. Always have the new head refreshed; mill head, inspect and valve job. My super clean B16 needed a valve job and 1 valve guide.