12 sec all-motor b20vtec?

[azstreetkings]

ok so here is the deal i been at this for a while and i been thinking what would i need to be able to hit the 12sec 1/4 mile on a b20vtec all-motor? is it worth it? what do you gyus think? any ideas? cost maybe any info or help will be appreciated..... oh i almost forgot the motor will be on a gutted cx model eg hatch

[king06]

Yes

[passwordjm]

Can't wait to build it and its going to be worth it at d end babe

[azstreetkings]

Yes what?

[azstreetkings]

Can't wait to build it and its going to be worth it at d end babe

I know it will...I'm excited as much as you are.

[ROCKS626]

\you should build..

[king06]

ok so here is the deal i been at this for a while and i been thinking what would i need to be able to hit the 12sec 1/4 mile on a b20vtec all-motor? is it worth it? what do you gyus think? any ideas? cost maybe any info or help will be appreciated..... oh i almost forgot the motor will be on a gutted cx model eg hatch

12 sec 1/4? yes

IS it worth it? yes

Several routes you can go, the budget build or the more expensive route.

Budget

Rs machine pistons
Stock resized rods with arp bolts
springs/retainers
pro1's/2
supporting mods, ie. intake, header, etc. keep it simple
Hondata/neptune
Locash/good dyno tune

The motor I have is a b20/vtec. 84.5x95 previous owner drove it to 11.8.

Start with a good block and a head that has not been messed with. Don't buy MSD ignition products, Aem, Injen, or what ever other intakes out there. Like I said, keep it simple.

[azstreetkings]

Ok well this is what I got so far. I'm going to be using my old b20b that spun a bearing(as soon as I heard the knock the motor was shut off so I'm hoping no major damage was caused ) was bone stock as well. I bought some rs machine 84mm itr style pistons bout six months ago. would that work as far the pistons go?

[Dead Bird]

yes

[king06]

If the sleeves are with in shape, no scoring, no deep scratches you should just be able to hone it and use those pistons.

[azstreetkings]

If the sleeves are with in shape, no scoring, no deep scratches you should just be able to hone it and use those pistons.

Ok cool thanks for the info I'm actually going to try to send it to the machine shop soon to get everything checked out pretty soon. I was thinking of getting some eagle rods to help out on the higher reving.

[azstreetkings]

Would Chrome chipped ecu on a tune be good enough or would it be better to invest in the hondata/neptune ?

[king06]

Ok cool thanks for the info I'm actually going to try to send it to the machine shop soon to get everything checked out pretty soon. I was thinking of getting some eagle rods to help out on the higher reving.

You can skip on the rods, like I said, keep it simple. Shot peened rods re-sized with ARP bolts.

Would Chrome chipped ecu on a tune be good enough or would it be better to invest in the hondata/neptune ?

Get a GOOD dyno tune!! Emphasize on GOOD. DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON THE TUNE!! I say Hondata and Neptune because we have a great local tuner he just happens to also be a vendor on this site and that's what he tunes.

The cars i've seen tuned on chrome are usually street tuned and idle like shit.

[Dead Bird]

Honestly, I say get the eagles.

They're $297 shipped last time I checked...
And there's a guy selling a brand new set on here for 200.

After buying your ARP's, and sending them to the machine shop for resizing and shotpeening, you've spent almost as much, and the forged eagle's are still going to be stronger... and new!

[2point6]

Honestly, I say get the eagles.

They're $297 shipped last time I checked...
And there's a guy selling a brand new set on here for 200.

After buying your ARP's, and sending them to the machine shop for resizing and shotpeening, you've spent almost as much, and the forged eagle's are still going to be stronger... and new!

There is not a reason to get the Eagles. They are heavier and the strength difference isn't so critical on this set-up. I would add arp rod bolts to the OEM rods and resize them. Simple.

[gunsup0331]

Oem LS with arps is perfect for an all motor build that won't see 9k
Any high perf build should have the rotating assy balanced and rods shotpeened and sized so that kinda washes out the price difference cuz you will still want to balance the eagles to your assy. And I got all my rodwork done for $80 so using rods that came with the block I saved 120-220 on rods alone.

I also agree to go with hondata or neptune because that is what our local Honda tuner uses. Youcould find a chip/software setup at your local FiliB's for $5 but Joe won't tune it so you'd be fuxkzor3d

[king06]

There is not a reason to get the Eagles. They are heavier and the strength difference isn't so critical on this set-up. I would add arp rod bolts to the OEM rods and resize them. Simple.

This

Oem LS with arps is perfect for an all motor build that won't see 9k
Any high perf build should have the rotating assy balanced and rods shotpeened and sized so that kinda washes out the price difference cuz you will still want to balance the eagles to your assy. And I got all my rodwork done for $80 so using rods that came with the block I saved 120-220 on rods alone.

I also agree to go with hondata or neptune because that is what our local Honda tuner uses. Youcould find a chip/software setup at your local FiliB's for $5 but Joe won't tune it so you'd be fuxkzor3d

and this, balance.

[azstreetkings]

Thanks all for the input and yeah true when I had my old set up I only took it to 8k max. What' do you guys think would be the best rev. Point on this. And I'm just gonna stick with the oem rods.

[azstreetkings]

As far as cams I was thinkin runningthe pro 3's with a b16 head skunk manifold and maybe a larger tb Idk yet tho any opinions on head part ?

[ICD]

Thanks all for the input and yeah true when I had my old set up I only took it to 8k max. What' do you guys think would be the best rev. Point on this. And I'm just gonna stick with the oem rods.

The tune will determine this

[2point6]

I have built many 12 and 11 second B20vtec engines. I would not recomend going with a pro3 cam. I typically use a tuner stage 2 or a pro 1 at the largest is what I use. Unless, you are building an all out race engine with sleeves, rods, killer compression, I dont see any need for a larger set of cams.

[EK 9]

Couple of questions for you.

1: who is building the motor??
2: Do you want to run pump gas? race gas?
3: Have you done any research? google any question you have i bet you find the answer read read read!
4: Headwork? porting?

Goodluck it will be fun

[king06]

I have built many 12 and 11 second B20vtec engines. I would not recomend going with a pro3 cam. I typically use a tuner stage 2 or a pro 1 at the largest is what I use. Unless, you are building an all out race engine with sleeves, rods, killer compression, I dont see any need for a larger set of cams.


Maybe pro2's?

Pro3's are HUGE for what you want.

[azstreetkings]

Couple of questions for you.

1: who is building the motor??
2: Do you want to run pump gas? race gas?
3: Have you done any research? google any question you have i bet you find the answer read read read!
4: Headwork? porting?

Goodluck it will be fun

1. Im doing the build my self... lol i've done several stock rebuilds and i just thought i try it.
2. im trying to run some race gas i was told that e85 would also work

and well im looking around but i would def. want to hear some opinions on machine shops. i definateky want to run better valves and port and polish the head.

when the time comes wish me luck lol im taking my time on this so hopefully everything goes well and as expected.

[Dead Bird]

Oem LS with arps is perfect for an all motor build that won't see 9k
Any high perf build should have the rotating assy balanced and rods shotpeened and sized so that kinda washes out the price difference cuz you will still want to balance the eagles to your assy. And I got all my rodwork done for $80 so using rods that came with the block I saved 120-220 on rods alone.

I also agree to go with hondata or neptune because that is what our local Honda tuner uses. Youcould find a chip/software setup at your local FiliB's for $5 but Joe won't tune it so you'd be fuxkzor3d

eh i've been quoted a bit more than that, so for only 200 i was strongly leaning toward that eagle's in this instance...



But to be honest, a gutted CX hatch won't need much at all. Once my ARP rod bolts go in and I get re-tuned, my oem b20/b16/itr cam combo with bolt ons would be enough to put your hatch into the high 12's with proper suspension/tire/transmission setup

[gunsup0331]

Kings Balancing did my rod work for my b20vtec. I will not use them again though.

[azstreetkings]

Kings Balancing did my rod work for my b20vtec. I will not use them again though.

why is that?

[gunsup0331]

couldnt shotpeen the rods said that abrasive blasting em was the same...Just didnt leave me super confident about their work pretty much. Im not bashing em by any means, just not my style thats all. I go to CBA in Chandler now. they arent the cheapest but their ppls and equipment are very good

[Dead Bird]

kings balancing on my side of town?

[azstreetkings]

ok where would that be at? and any other suggestions on any other machine shops?

[azstreetkings]

what about Toda C cams i have a friend of mines selling me a set of those for 600 and or a set of toda D cams for the same price?

[Dead Bird]

Those are gonna be too big of a cam for any cast piston you'll put in there.

gonna have to get a set of at least 12.5:1 to really get the benefits of either cam

[PENTAGRAM_OF_EVIL]

couldnt shotpeen the rods said that abrasive blasting em was the same...Just didnt leave me super confident about their work pretty much. Im not bashing em by any means, just not my style thats all. I go to CBA in Chandler now. they arent the cheapest but their ppls and equipment are very good

this is were i go too, and they do great work and have built acouple imports engines

[rIcHiEe]

12 sec 1/4? yes

IS it worth it? yes

Several routes you can go, the budget build or the more expensive route.

Budget

Rs machine pistons
Stock resized rods with arp bolts
springs/retainers
pro1's/2
supporting mods, ie. intake, header, etc. keep it simple
Hondata/neptune
Locash/good dyno tune

The motor I have is a b20/vtec. 84.5x95 previous owner drove it to 11.8.

Start with a good block and a head that has not been messed with. Don't buy MSD ignition products, Aem, Injen, or what ever other intakes out there. Like I said, keep it simple.


how much would a setup like this would run you

[Dead Bird]

how much would a setup like this would run you

more than you can afford pal.

eBay

[honduh_head]

btw you guys are missing the biggest part about getting into the 12's all motor. and it's not how much HP his set up makes. ya that's part of it, but his chassis is what's going to get him there.

get that hatch as light as possible, a good set of slicks and skinnies, a good stiff suspension set up and seat time. you could have a 300 hp set up and you prolly wouldn't hit 12's in your first 5 shots down the track. i would shoot for 205-210 hp and get some passes under your belt to see where you're at.

[passwordjm]

BTW d hatch is going to be super gutted

[mario's]

i know this machine shop in south meza, its called basco engine service, they have done some engines for me,they are really good,its not a cheap place but when it comes about getting something right, i go with them,
they did two b20vtecs,one for turbo and one N/A,also a gsr with high comp. pistons, and the good thing is that they give you warranty on their labor....

[honduh_head]

BTW d hatch is going to be super gutted

gutted doesn't mean set up well.

[THE Slow 5.oh?]

btw you guys are missing the biggest part about getting into the 12's all motor. and it's not how much HP his set up makes. ya that's part of it, but his chassis is what's going to get him there.

get that hatch as light as possible, a good set of slicks and skinnies, a good stiff suspension set up and seat time. you could have a 300 hp set up and you prolly wouldn't hit 12's in your first 5 shots down the track. i would shoot for 205-210 hp and get some passes under your belt to see where you're at.


^^^ THIS^^^^

you could build a 1000hp car but if you dont have the means to put that power to the ground, and keep there, as well as a driver capable of using that power, then its useless.
Horsepower is the lock, Driver an chassis is key... to un-lock the perfect combo.

Just my .02

[passwordjm]

gutted doesn't mean set up well.

But Its part of It

[I Hate Import Cars]

i know this machine shop in south meza, its called basco engine service, they have done some engines for me,they are really good,its not a cheap place but when it comes about getting something right, i go with them,
they did two b20vtecs,one for turbo and one N/A,also a gsr with high comp. pistons, and the good thing is that they give you warranty on their labor....

Uuuuummmmm, no. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT let these guys touch a motor you want to live. They have fucked up REPEATEDLY with me, on an all motor B16 (I KNOW that doesn't make sense, shut up) and a stroker 351W. The B was redone by them twice and the Windsor is on it's 3rd build. Both motors sucked and burned oil like a motherfucker. 400+ inch SBF making under 400hp? Riiiiiiiggghhhhhtttttt.... Stay away from these guys at all costs.

[honduh_head]

400+ inch SBF making under 400hp? Riiiiiiiggghhhhhtttttt.... Stay away from these guys at all costs.

sounds about right to me... hahaha. :)

[all_motor_mike]

i use to take all my machine work to basko and i live in the northwest valley. i never had issues with them but i got tired of driving all the way over there. now i have brian at napa/hempelmans do all my machine work. hes also the guy that does all of tri techs machine work which is a shit load of honda (mainly b sereies) work. as for the head porting, well i know a guy thatspretty badass at that too lol.


mike

[honduh_head]

lol ^

[azstreetkings]

i use to take all my machine work to basko and i live in the northwest valley. i never had issues with them but i got tired of driving all the way over there. now i have brian at napa/hempelmans do all my machine work. hes also the guy that does all of tri techs machine work which is a shit load of honda (mainly b sereies) work. as for the head porting, well i know a guy thatspretty badass at that too lol.


mike

....

[azstreetkings]

again since my last attempt at this failed lol... Never finished the build and sold it... anyways i got self a good RE- start up on this project.

so far i've pick up the following...

b20b w/ RS high comp. pistons
gsr and b16 head both upgraded valve train and P&P (not decided on which one to use)
GSR transmission
1320 header
Injectors??
And im stuck on which cams to use... i have a set of buddy club spec 4 cams and a set of Toda A2 cams.
Any suggestions on Intake Manifold?
Anyone used S&S Machine Shop in Mesa?

Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks

[king06]

again since my last attempt at this failed lol... Never finished the build and sold it... anyways i got self a good RE- start up on this project.

so far i've pick up the following...

b20b w/ RS high comp. pistons
gsr and b16 head both upgraded valve train and P&P (not decided on which one to use)
GSR transmission
1320 header
Injectors??
And im stuck on which cams to use... i have a set of buddy club spec 4 cams and a set of Toda A2 cams.
Any suggestions on Intake Manifold?
Anyone used S&S Machine Shop in Mesa?

Any input will be appreciated.

Thanks

B16 head just because it's easier to find an intake manifold.
B16 trans because shorter gears
ID750's?
Try both cams since you have them both
Ported ITR seems to work or Victor x
I've used engine house in PHX, and king balancing but, just for a hone and small stuff.

[TucsonEuroCamry]

I have a b20v w gsr head and gsr trans and I like it. B 16 Trans would be good if you want to go fast, but I like the gsr Trans for the possibility of spray. I know people use the ls for boost tho.

It's not that hard to get an im for the gsr...

Sent from my SGH-T769 using Tapatalk 2

[chicken bandit]

i use to take all my machine work to basko and i live in the northwest valley. i never had issues with them but i got tired of driving all the way over there. now i have brian at napa/hempelmans do all my machine work. hes also the guy that does all of tri techs machine work which is a shit load of honda (mainly b sereies) work. as for the head porting, well i know a guy thatspretty badass at that too lol.


mike

I've also used hempelman several times and haven't had any issues

[Syvi]

Subscribed... im interested in this build. Im also building an all motor b20v but for road racing instead of drag

[johnb20]

stage 4 cams will not make any power with that low off compression!! you would need 14:1 to 15:1. listen to scott on tuner 2 :)

[azstreetkings]

stage 4 cams will not make any power with that low off compression!! you would need 14:1 to 15:1. listen to scott on tuner 2 :)

true ^^^^ well now after all the crazy blackfriday madness i will start on this again. so far i have the my old itr set up partially removed. this week end i plan to put the b16 head on since its complete but will replace valves with flatfaced valves.

[Dead Bird]

The spec IV's are NOT a stage 4 cam...

Every build I've seen with them paired to the RS "ITR" piston makes great #'s...

Of course, they did have head work, properly cooperating bolt-ons and a nice tune.

[MIRANDA88]

Wish I had an aftermarket cam.

[passwordjm]

Wish I had an aftermarket cam.

me too

[azstreetkings]

Wish I had an aftermarket cam.

arent you already turboed?

[azstreetkings]

Subscribed... im interested in this build. Im also building an all motor b20v but for road racing instead of drag

i want to build my other engine for this purpose as well ^^^

[EFinyouup]

im in for more info im also building a b20v

[MIRANDA88]

Almost done?

[bb4arson]

suspension ,traction bar and slicks .......most important seat time .


sounds like you have none . so go practice .

i have a stage 4 racing trophy awarded to me by kyle bush (george bushes bush) .

[Dead Bird]

When are you going to be done Mario jesus

[passwordjm]

???

[bb4arson]

When are you going to be done Mario jesus

I've been lazy. Well all I need is my transmission bolts. I lost them. Haven't had a chance to go to the junk yard. I work from the time they are open. No opportunity to go. And I don't want to pay Honda for brand new ones they are expensive.

[J240sx]

I had a B20 I built that I recently sold. Went 12.3 @ 114 MPH with a 1.7 60ft. CP 12:5-1 Pistons, Eagle Rods, stock 84mm bore, Pro 2 cans, Victor X manifold with a port Matched 70 mm Throttle Body, 3" intake to a velocity stack outside the bumper, HiTec Big Tube Header Skunk 2 2.5" Exhaust, Ferrea Valvetrain, and tuned on Hondata S200 on 93 made 233 whp. Only one successful pass before I started running into issues. I think she had an 11.9 in her.

[azstreetkings]

Plans changed guys .... Decided to go k series on this build instead so now I need to sell all my b series will make a new thread about it. Hoping to have pics ad well

[Colten79]

^^^Exellent... Welcome my son, welcome..

[mikesanto70]

I had a B20 I built that I recently sold. Went 12.3 @ 114 MPH with a 1.7 60ft. CP 12:5-1 Pistons, Eagle Rods, stock 84mm bore, Pro 2 cans, Victor X manifold with a port Matched 70 mm Throttle Body, 3" intake to a velocity stack outside the bumper, HiTec Big Tube Header Skunk 2 2.5" Exhaust, Ferrea Valvetrain, and tuned on Hondata S200 on 93 made 233 whp. Only one successful pass before I started running into issues. I think she had an 11.9 in her.


How much time/miles was on the engine? Was it a fresh build? I'm wanting to do an all motor B20Vtec or Sleeved 85x89 B18 (in case I move back to Cali) and I'm looking for 225-230 whp, that would make a nice little ripper for the street!! It's going into a 96' DX Hatch. I want it to be able to take out stock Mustang GT's on the street even the 2011+ 5.0's hopefully! Do I want a B16 trans or a GSR trans?

[mikesanto70]

Also, on a B20Vtec, in an all motor 11:51 -12:1 pump 91 gas set up, are the stock rods after shotpeening & ARP bolts good enough. If I take the motor to 8500-9000k on a daily basis, will it hold up, on do I just need to get Eagle rods, it's not a money issue, it's a strenght and weight issue, if the stockers are significantly lighter and will hold up under any all motor conditions, i would stay w/ them. Opinions? or better yet, facts of people who have done either?

[J240sx]

It was a fresh build five years ago and I just sold the setup last year and started building my Turbo setup. I had Eagle Rods in mine. Clevite bearings, CP 12.5-1 on 93 psi. My best advice would be to lighten the car as much as you can. Because squeezing out an add'l couple horse power at the end tends to get expensive. But it was a daily and weekend warrior. Eventually I ended up welding the diff and running on the streets with slicks. FL is much bigger on actual street racing then AZ. I would just upgrade the rods $250 for rods vs whatever it cost to prep the stock rods. Here's a few vids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHbBMQp3XSo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I think she could have gone faster but this was my only good pass before destroying the different and running into other issues repeatedly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By9bBgUNe40&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[J240sx]

I had a B16 trans, welded diff, 11 lb competition Flywheel, competition Stage 4 6 Puck unsprung. Gearspeed syncros. I kinda regret selling and going the boosted route because of the headaches involved.

[mikesanto70]

It was a fresh build five years ago and I just sold the setup last year and started building my Turbo setup. I had Eagle Rods in mine. Clevite bearings, CP 12.5-1 on 93 psi. My best advice would be to lighten the car as much as you can. Because squeezing out an add'l couple horse power at the end tends to get expensive. But it was a daily and weekend warrior. Eventually I ended up welding the diff and running on the streets with slicks. FL is much bigger on actual street racing then AZ. I would just upgrade the rods $250 for rods vs whatever it cost to prep the stock rods. Here's a few vids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHbBMQp3XSo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I think she could have gone faster but this was my only good pass before destroying the different and running into other issues repeatedly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By9bBgUNe40&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I love it, you killed that GTO, you didn't just beat him you stomped him!!! Was it a 6.0 or 5.7? Were you running street tires? Sounded like you might have been to to the amount of wheelspin I could hear at the start!!:owned:

[mikesanto70]

After putting a pencil to the costs of building a stout B18/20 sleeved, ported head, all out motor trans LSD etc... I might go with a K24a2, port that head and put a 45* or 50* VTC and put cams and supporting bolt on mods and costs would be close and the K would stomp it and be WAY more efficient & reliable, make torque up the ass and get good fuel mileage too !!!!, any thoughts peeps?

[Dead Bird]

K's are gay!

They only make like 215/150+ with bolt ons and still get 30+ mpg