This 3 angle valve job doesn't look right.... Help!

[Whiteman51x]

So i went to a machine shop to get my head re-done, the guy said they do a 3 angle to every head, he charged me $340 to re grind seats and said it was for a 3 angle job. i know its pricey but he had a fast turn around and everyone else was booked for 3 weeks.

I have run into a couple other problems with his work so i found this.... I dont want to accuse him of anything BUT this does NOT look like a 3 angle to me... i feel screwed :pissed:
Notice the first pic that the angle thats supposed to be the 30 degree, closest to inside of intake port just tapers off and disappears.

also, you can see the origional 3 angle on the exhaust port, which looks pitted and untouched to me... idk, need another opinion cause im not 100% sure

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f12/Whiteman51x/IMG_5428.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f12/Whiteman51x/IMG_5427.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f12/Whiteman51x/IMG_5426.jpg


This guy also bored the block to fit my new oem itr .25 over pistons.... come to find that there is a .05mm piston to cylinder wall clearance, which is hondas service limit spec.... NICE right?

[ICD]

Who is doing this?

[Whiteman51x]

Baileys Machine shop in mesa. Off country club and 8th street ish.

He also bored my block too far so i cant use my new $350 itr pistons and rings, and installed my new in oem honda bag ITR intake springs on the exhaust side... after i TOLD HIM to put em on the intake side 3 TIMES!

Is this a crappy 3 angle? or did i get screwed? never had a 3 angle done before

[taggart_lumpy]

id be going back there

[Whiteman51x]

im pissed, i am going back first thing tomorrow, im going to try to make them buy new pistons (oem honda none the less) OR im taking them to court.

dont want to wait longer and sue cause i dont have time but if it gets that far....

also automotive machine of scottsdale LOST my rocker arm assembly.....

im fed up with machine shops, anyone have a GOOD and reliable one?

[gunsup0331]

CBA in chandler is the shit. I got my head completely redone with proper 3 angle VJ for 275, turnaround was good and the people there are top notch.

That is not a 3 angle valve job. Just a shoddy recut with a crappy stone

[Whiteman51x]

What is wrong with this valve job? is it me or did i get screwed? i need an argument point so i can verify my complaint! IS this done wrong?

[gunsup0331]

In fact here is their number. Ask for scott, he's the owner.
4809175803

[Whiteman51x]

CBA in chandler is the shit. I got my head completely redone with proper 3 angle VJ for 275, turnaround was good and the people there are top notch.

That is not a 3 angle valve job. Just a shoddy recut


thank you sir!!!!!:you rock:

[gunsup0331]

On a proper 3 angle you will see three fresh cuts in the seat with the face a slightly different texture from the lapping process (some will include the lap, others charge extra, and others use machines good enough to not require a lap)
Sorry for the lack of proper terminology but hth. I have my UTI textbook if you want to borrow it or go to the library for a cyl head book. Imo you should just try to get as much cash back from the shop as possible and cut your losses. Have someone else like CBA do the work and be happy!

[Whiteman51x]

you think this can be re cut with a 3 angle? or is it more likely they took too much off? (probably have to measure it im sure)

also didnt hondas come with a 3 angle from the factory? reason i ask is my other head has what looks like 3 angles, never been touched to my knowledge.

you think this head is useable? or will it rob me of power? i plan on ITR cams and i dont want a permanent handicap....

[Dead Bird]

aye yaye yaye.


Make sure you are able to show that the bore is too big. Show them how you measured the piston-to-wall clearance and bring an fsm and show them that it's too big.

You gotta have good argument points so they're forced to admit they are in the wrong. If not, I suppose you can try small claims, but you do need to make sure they warranty their work. Hopefully they take responsibility for their mistakes and at least attempt to fix the problem.

good luck

[theAngryMarmot]

Should look like this :

http://www.hanzenginehouse.com/HANZENGINEHOUSE/images/jobs/valve%20seat.jpg

[Whiteman51x]

yeah i dont have any snap guages, but a quick way i know is that i take a .05mm feeler guage and stick it in there with the piston on the skirt, it slides out with minimal effort.

I have the honda online repair manuals (ISIS) so i have proof of the clearances, the intake springs are clearly on the exhaust side... and from what you guys say this is obviously not a 3 angle...

i have a receipt with a breakdown and i made em write the vin on the receipt. so i have proof of everything.

we will see where it goes i guess, i have more then enough to embarass them but im going in with a smile and a please so we shall see how far i get.

[allbossbra]

you do a lot of engine building where do you take your machine work paul?

[Whiteman51x]

Should look like this :

http://image38.webshots.com/38/0/70/98/2645070980087888626JPcffC_ph.jpg

cannot see the pic my friend

[allbossbra]

im pissed, i am going back first thing tomorrow, im going to try to make them buy new pistons (oem honda none the less) OR im taking them to court.

dont want to wait longer and sue cause i dont have time but if it gets that far....

also automotive machine of scottsdale LOST my rocker arm assembly.....

im fed up with machine shops, anyone have a GOOD and reliable one?

the head guy there is one of the best in the valley.. as for them loosing your rocker arms hey shit happens. did they at least try and work with you.

[allbossbra]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Tech/4AG-Engine-Build/JEF7551/694143230_foi29-L.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1358/pageid/1595/extreme-engine-tech-technosquares-monster-naturally-aspirated-toyota-4ag-part-2.aspx&usg=__yZi9fBompAjKivka85xgXB0PL1U=&h=580&w=800&sz=179&hl=en&start=108&zoom=1&tbnid=v0kZ6xrYjlgzIM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=195&ei=T-nZTczSIYKmsQPd1r2ODA&prev=/search%3Fq%3D3%2Bangle%2Bvalve%2Bjob%2Bhonda%26um% 3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DZoi%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D60 5%26tbm%3Disch0%2C3876&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=345&sqi=2&page=9&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:108&tx=81&ty=101&biw=1024&bih=605

[theAngryMarmot]

you do a lot of engine building where do you take your machine work paul?


Yes, I build my own engines, I have a friend who does my machine work.

[allbossbra]

Yes, I build my own engines, I have a friend who does my machine work.

you know your stuff i was just curious who did your machine work care to give a name?

[theAngryMarmot]

you know your stuff i was just curious who did your machine work care to give a name?

Thanks for the compliment.

Actually I won't say who because I only refer people I know to the people who do work for me, and also because he typically does not cater to random people (The only reason I know him is because I used to work near/help him for 3-4 years.)

[Whiteman51x]

wel i asked after i got it all back if he had seen them, he said no and that it was in the box of parts from my head he gave me, which it wasnt, i got a new head but its the fact that he lost it that pissed me off...

but they do good work, i have no complaints about them besides above stated.

[Whiteman51x]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://photos.motoiq.com/MotoIQ/Tech/4AG-Engine-Build/JEF7551/694143230_foi29-L.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/1358/pageid/1595/extreme-engine-tech-technosquares-monster-naturally-aspirated-toyota-4ag-part-2.aspx&usg=__yZi9fBompAjKivka85xgXB0PL1U=&h=580&w=800&sz=179&hl=en&start=108&zoom=1&tbnid=v0kZ6xrYjlgzIM:&tbnh=134&tbnw=195&ei=T-nZTczSIYKmsQPd1r2ODA&prev=/search%3Fq%3D3%2Bangle%2Bvalve%2Bjob%2Bhonda%26um% 3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DZoi%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Dnp%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D60 5%26tbm%3Disch0%2C3876&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=345&sqi=2&page=9&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:108&tx=81&ty=101&biw=1024&bih=605


saw this image, thats why i questioned mine, didnt look like the images i was getting. is a regular valve grind still ok or will it impact the flow? should i get it re done or live with it? is this head useable? i need a motor and dont think i can keep waitning, cars been down for a month....

[allbossbra]

Thanks for the compliment.

Actually I won't say who because I only refer people I know to the people who do work for me, and also because he typically does not cater to random people (The only reason I know him is because I used to work near/help him for 3-4 years.)

I figured that by your first statement. I wouldn't want some uneducated punk kids to ruin my good connections either.

[Whiteman51x]

So the guy said he would try to "throw" a 60 in there if there is enough room for it on the seat and make sure it has a 30...

ALSO the guys didnt have any specs for this motor, i asked them if they needed me to get them any, they said no... so THE BLOCK GUY just did what he said he does to every block and he put a .002" piston to wall clearance on it.. which is too big for these motors.WOW!

And they wont give me my money back, they are going to press in new sleeves and re do it... i dont want new sleeves but pistons are more expensive. I just hope they can sleeve a motor right, they cant seem to do anything else right....

[allbossbra]

this machine shop is willing to instal new sleeves than to replace your itr pistons? hell a block goes for dirt cheap and they can re machine it

[honduh_head]

ya that sounds weird ^

[PhoenixB16]

It makes zero sense at all....

[gunsup0331]

.002" is not too big for p2w clearance.
Dude cut your losses and run. Have someone check your block over the way it sits and post up your results. Then go from there

[allbossbra]

.002" is not too big for p2w clearance.
Dude cut your losses and run. Have someone check your block over the way it sits and post up your results. Then go from there

fuck it loose motors all rip anyways!

[Bill Cosby]

They are prolly gonna try to give you a different block dude, check the #'s

[I Hate Import Cars]

ya that sounds weird ^

It makes zero sense at all....

You guys are thinking about closed deck sleeves "AEBS, GE, Darton, etc). They can also resleeve one of these blocks with stock "sleeves" which are just what the stock motors have, aka a cylinder liner.

[intenseneal]

im pissed, i am going back first thing tomorrow, im going to try to make them buy new pistons (oem honda none the less) OR im taking them to court.

dont want to wait longer and sue cause i dont have time but if it gets that far....

also automotive machine of scottsdale LOST my rocker arm assembly.....

im fed up with machine shops, anyone have a GOOD and reliable one?
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience, I had a shop ruin a B16 head. S&S Machine in Mesa is great. I had them do my replacement head and it turned out great.
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/random008.jpg

[Mr.Burner]

Wow that sucks man, i hope you get this situation resolved... Resleeving a block is not an easy task. Not to many people know what there getting there selves into when doing that. I dont think anyone is Az does honda block sleeving anymore.