what roll cage?

[rsport]

hey guys,

i am looking to do some upgrading to my 83 civic and eventually want to try to do some road racing. right now my concern is roll cages. if i eventually go with a b16 swap all motor and get around 200hp, will a 4 point roll cage be enough? it is the type of roll cage that starts behind the front seats and goes back to the rear towards the hatch. the car only weighs 1800 lbs stock, so after some weight reduction, the car should still only weight about 1800 lbs when i am done.

what do you guys think?

[mixedCRX]

are you just planing on doing DE or Race group? because unless your in race group you don't need a cage.

but hmmmslowcivic is doing like a 12 point or more cage and all he will have is a b20 none vtec. cage's help with safety and stability.

I have a crx with about 180whp or maybe more (needs a retune) and I don't have a cage.

[Jason.AZ1]

PM Mr.Burner he can build you a custom roll bar/cage for cheap!

[BlueTeg]

if i eventually go with a b16 swap all motor and get around 200hp, will a 4 point roll cage be enough?

it is the type of roll cage that starts behind the front seats and goes back to the rear towards the hatch.

what do you guys think?

4pt = roll bar, not roll cage. FYI

The cliffsnotes for rollover protection are:
The diagonal cross brace must be a continuous bar
The horizontal harness bar must allow the harness to mount at an acceptable angle (the shoulder harness shall be mounted behind the driver and above a line drawndownward from the shoulder point at an angle of no more than twenty (20)degrees with the horizontal)
The backing plates must be at a minimum of 4" x 4"
The main hoop may not have more than 4 bends and must be one continuous piece
All welds joining bars must be 360 degrees complete around
Rear support legs may not be bent.

^ what I think. ;)

[Mr.Burner]

To get started a 4pt with harness bar would be perfect. Everything else can be added on later. Get a seat you plan on sticking with before you have the harness bar done.

[LoooseGSR]

PM Mr.Burner he can build you a custom roll bar/cage for cheap!

Roll Cage and Cheap do not belong in the same sentence, no offense to the person being referred, but when I eventually do put a cage in my car, or a car, I plan to spend a couple grand, your life depends on it, no reason to skimp.

[rsport]

so the 4 point roll cage is just pretty much a supported roll bar?

my goals with my car are to have a DD that i can track as well; with keeping most of the interior, like back seats.
is that pretty much impossible for a legit roll cage?

is there a minimum diameter for the pipe you use?

im planning on finally buying a tig welder and learning how to do this myself, even if i have to redo a few things, it will be worth the experience.

[BlueTeg]

so the 4 point roll cage is just pretty much a supported roll bar?

my goals with my car are to have a DD that i can track as well; with keeping most of the interior, like back seats.
is that pretty much impossible for a legit roll cage?

is there a minimum diameter for the pipe you use?


A roll cage provides increased rollover protection, particularly in the front cabin area (A-pillars and front roofline). Most people refer to a roll cage as a rollover support structure that comes into the front cabin, aka forward of the main rollhoop, aka forward of the B-pillar.
A roll bar provides some rollover protection, namely in the center of the roofline, closest to your head via the rollhoop which is supported by rear legs and also in some cases a diagonal bar which strengthes the main roll hoop by triangulating the hoop.

Autopower has a rollbar design that allows you to keep your rear seats. You or your fabricator of choice could copy that design. They also have a rollcage design that doesn't require that you hack up the dash. I would not recommend either for a car that's your daily driver. Having steel tubes in front of (rollcage), on the side of (rollcage), and directly in back of (rollbar and rollcage) head when you're driving on the street without a helmet is a bad idea for obvious reasons if you were to get into a serious car accident.

Different sanctioning bodies have different requirements for the thickness of tubing. It mostly depends on weight.


im planning on finally buying a tig welder and learning how to do this myself, even if i have to redo a few things, it will be worth the experience.

Not be a negative Nancy on this, but building a rollcage isn't really something that you want learn your way through. Sanctioning bodies are going to scrutinize the penetration of your welds, the placement of bars, angles of the bars relative to their intended use, etc. It takes experienced fabricators 10+ hours to build a basic cage. I imagine if you're trying to do it for the first time, like anything else, it's going to take 2-3 times that long. Then to have it finished and then get the car put back together and then take it out to the track, only to find out that tech won't pass the bar/cage.

IMO: just get out on track and see if you even like it before dumping a bunch of money and loads of time into building a cage or rollbar (that will make your daily less safe for doing what it does most: daily driving).

[ILIKETODRIVE]

http://www.nasaproracing.com/

Mouse over "Driving Info", mouse over "Road Racing", select "CCR", jump to section 15.6

[rsport]

thanks, that link help a lot. it looks like im going to do a lot more planning, practice welding and all around consideration if i want to do this myself.

i had no idea this was so intense.

for a small underpowered car like mine (1800 lbs and 60 hp) would a cage be required for all races or is that something i will need later on when i get more serious with a bigger motor?

[Agent Smith]

thanks, that link help a lot. it looks like im going to do a lot more planning, practice welding and all around consideration if i want to do this myself.

i had no idea this was so intense.

for a small underpowered car like mine (1800 lbs and 60 hp) would a cage be required for all races or is that something i will need later on when i get more serious with a bigger motor?

you will not be "racing" your car on track for quite a while. Track experience & skill takes development, plus a racing license and full safety gear before you can actually "race". You will have the same safety/roll cage requirements to "race" your car with 60hp or 600hp. You will start in some form of Driver Education & work your way up through the courses, then you can move onto race group if you desire...

[Mr.Burner]

Roll Cage and Cheap do not belong in the same sentence, no offense to the person being referred, but when I eventually do put a cage in my car, or a car, I plan to spend a couple grand, your life depends on it, no reason to skimp.

Cage material isnt really that expensive. Its the labor, and some people just go overboard on it...

No offense taken. I've done plenty of them in chromoly for customers and they exceeded there expectations.

So if your spending more then $2000 on one, your fabricator is being greedy imo.

[allbossbra]

Cage material isnt really that expensive. Its the labor, and some people just go overboard on it...

No offense taken. I've done plenty of them in chromoly for customers and they exceeded there expectations.

So if your spending more then $2000 on one, your fabricator is being greedy imo.

i like this guy already ^^

[ILIKETODRIVE]

So if your spending more then $2000 on one, your fabricator is being greedy imo.

RLY?

Top-notch quality:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x47/kcpaz/IMG_6372.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x47/kcpaz/IMG_6369.jpg

Without his experience and skillz with fabrication and welding, the cage design (and attention to detail for every angle of bar) would be half as good and the welds not nearly as quality. (PS - it's my car and when you sit in it you don't even realize there's a cage there which IMO makes it 100x better than any bolt-in cage and 10x better than any other caged car I've sat in)

[BlueTeg]

Cage material isnt really that expensive. Its the labor, and some people just go overboard on it...

So if your spending more then $2000 on one, your fabricator is being greedy imo.

I don't think that's a 100% accurate statement. True if the customer wants the basic 6 point cage (2 forward legs, basic halo, roll hoop w/ one diagonal brace, one harness brace and 2 rear support legs), but if they come to you want diagonals or X-braces on the halo, nascar door bars, support plates joining the forward legs to the A-pillar, dash bar, multiple X-braces joining the rear support legs, then that's twice the labor and twice the materials so you would expect that a skilled fabricator is going to charge twice as much which most certainly will exceed $2,000

[civic nerd]

RLY?

Top-notch quality:
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x47/kcpaz/IMG_6372.jpg
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x47/kcpaz/IMG_6369.jpg

Without his experience and skillz with fabrication and welding, the cage design (and attention to detail for every angle of bar) would be half as good and the welds not nearly as quality. (PS - it's my car and when you sit in it you don't even realize there's a cage there which IMO makes it 100x better than any bolt-in cage and 10x better than any other caged car I've sat in)
So how much was that?

[SlowCivicHmm]

Roll Cage and Cheap do not belong in the same sentence, no offense to the person being referred, but when I eventually do put a cage in my car, or a car, I plan to spend a couple grand, your life depends on it, no reason to skimp.


What this man said!!!

I just got my cage....its an 8pt w/ way too many pick up ponts....LOL

I did go overboard....I'll post a pic later........but its by the book and done by a racer thats been in the biz for over 30yrs......

[Mr.Burner]

I don't think that's a 100% accurate statement. True if the customer wants the basic 6 point cage (2 forward legs, basic halo, roll hoop w/ one diagonal brace, one harness brace and 2 rear support legs), but if they come to you want diagonals or X-braces on the halo, nascar door bars, support plates joining the forward legs to the A-pillar, dash bar, multiple X-braces joining the rear support legs, then that's twice the labor and twice the materials so you would expect that a skilled fabricator is going to charge twice as much which most certainly will exceed $2,000

Im just referring to your basic 6pt cage legal for what he's doing. Ya add on's and extra will make the price go up. No argue there.

ILIKETODRIVE's cage deff would exceed the 2k price range. But that is not necessary for what rsport needs to start.
I've done a cage just like your's in a 350z long time ago, same door bars, those have become very common. I like it. I charged him 2k with materials.
Is that chrom in your car aswell? Cause that makes the price shoot even higher, looks like d.o.m tho. Much cheaper $$

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Yeah, it's DOM 1 3/4 and 1 1/2 .120 (I think). Roughly 100lbs in materials.

Correct. My cage minus door bars and integrated x-bar (in the halo) and knee bar would have been less than 2K. However, I plan on doing wheel-to-wheel with that car so extra bars were needed.

[boozebag]

get an auto power roll bar and call it a day, other than that just get a harness bar. Anything is pointless unless in race group imho