F22A1 with F20B INTERNALS

[92accord]

I'm currently building a motor that I have not heard of being done before. I have a f22a1 from a 92 accord, a F23a1 from a 98 accord, and a F20B. I am going to put the F23 vtec head on the f22a1 block, then use the crank, high comp pistons, and rods from the f20b in the f22a1 block. The only problem I have come across is that the f22a1 crank mains are 50mm and the mains on the f20b crank are 55mm. so i am sending the crank of to have all the mains on the f20b crank cut to specifications of the f22a1 crank. this will then allow me to run the f20b internals in the f22a1 block.

Has anyone ever done this build or heard of anyone doing this build? I'm just wondering if I will come across any problems before i start getting to deep into it. Kinda looking for advise, or pros and cons about this build.

[Type - O]

hmmm.....i heard of a F with H internals but not this. GL bro, keep us updated

[BlaZeNem]

yeah man keep us updated and if your not already on there try www.cb7tuner.com theres alot of accord info on there look me up on there wit the same screen name

[redlog4200]

sounds like a head ach

[skabone]

very intresting, I know some guys that have done the G23 taken the F23 block and put an H23 head on but I haven't heard of what your trying to do. keep us informed, sounds intresting.

[92accord]

Well, I have my f22 block completely taken apart and sending it to the machine shop tomorrow morning to have it clean in the hot tank. the F23 head actually goes on perfect. the F22 and F23 head gasket all line up exactly. the only thing that is different, is that the f22 is a 85mm bore and the F23 is a 87mm bore. so I'm going to use the F22 head gasket. They say when you do a head swap to always you the head gasket that matches the block. I should hopefully have the F20B crank sent off to the machine shop some time next week to have it cut to spec. so far everything that i have matched up between the f20b and the f22a has been right on. So far, its a very easy engine Build!!!

[skabone]

so what are your goals for gains out of this setup? are you going to be running any forced induction or nitrious? so what are you going to call the engine? the F65aB, combine all the numbers from the series of the engine, and add the aB for shits and giggles? lol you are the creator so you get to name it.

[92accord]

Right now, I only plan on running N/A. As far as what to call the engine.... I'm not sure yet.lol. I didn't even think about that. hmmmm. how about you guys give me some ideas and I will see what to pick. Lets make this a contest. You guys give me your ideas of a name and the one I pick will have the bragging rights of naming this engine. so far, I do like the F65AB lol, atleast the F65 part.

[DJ Hookid]

Sounds like a lot of work! GL

[skabone]

when do you get the block back from the cleaning? when are you hoping to have everything put back together and installed? you might run into some problems with what timing belt to use. what are you going to use for an ECU?

[92accord]

I already have the block back from cleaning. Its look brand new, very nice. Ummm, Next week I am sending the crank out to have cut to spec. I ran short on cash flow this last week just cause of all my other bills. as far as the timing belt, i'm gonna try the f23a timing belt, the f20b timing sprocket on the crank is a little smaller than the f23 and f22 sprockets. so i'm gonna use the timing sprocket from the f23 and put that on the f20 crank, then use the f23 T-belt just so its the belt that matches the head. As far as ECU, i'm just gonna use my stock ECU for now and run a VAFC2 to run the VTEC. I do need to come up on a f23 intake manifold or atleast the coolant neck off of a f23 manifold cause the f22 coolant neck doesn't clear the VTEC soleniod. I believe my buddy down the street may have the f23 manifold.

[bayareaprelude]

whats the point of this build? you pretty much have a f20b bottom block with a f23 head. and the f23 pistons are 86mm not 87mm. your losing stoke but gaining higher rpm speeds with this setup. why are you planning to run f23 head why not a h23 or h22 head? this is a weak setup if you do this. your better off running a complete f23 motor then this. as for running a stock ecu with a vafc that is one of the dumbest idea a person would do. just go run a vtec ecu then get it tuned once you have the funds

[92accord]

Hey thanks for the info. I guess I'll just straight up stop doing this engine build since the genius like you is telling me that its a stupid build. lol. I figured I have these three engines laying around that have a problems to where they can't run by themselves so I was gonna piece all three of them into one to make a running engine and see how the outcome is. Its worth a shot. and eveyone else seems to agree with me. I'll keep YOU posted as well and let you know of the outcome. Thanks GuyBlow. By the way, you should pay more attention to reading what I have previously posted. I never said the f20b had a 87mm bore. and you're wrong about it being 86mm. Its a 85mm. Do so more research before you try bashing on my ideas.

[bayareaprelude]

[QUOTE=92accord;440373]F23 is a 87mm bore.QUOTE]

[92accord]

so anyways, what is your point? I'm not even using the f23 for anything but the head anyways. so bore don't mean shit to me

[BlaZeNem]

hey what part of phx you in?

[cd7f20b]

yo 92accord -

I have a running F20b in my 97 lx coupe. i am actually gonna try to build it in NA, but I am having a bitch of a time getting measurements. Do you have specs for all the block internals?

[flyjum]

Yea sounds cool setup. In a old sport compact car mag, they made a 320+hp f series. IIRC had h22 rods and crank and f series block and head I dont remember what f series it was tho.

[92accord]

which measurements do you need, and i can get them for you. i actually have them all writen down on paper. i can give them all to you but i'm at work right now. by the way i don't live in phx.

[killah_zccord]

that was an F22 block with H22 internals.. this was an N/A motor too run with a CARBUERATOR!! lol.. guy found he got way better atomization of the fuel with a carb than any high flow injector setup. he also had a custom intake setup. and a few other things.. I'll see if I can dig up that mag.. and get the rest of the info on it. I forget what head it used. and what else was done to the heads/block..

[killah_zccord]

what about this combo? this is essentially a stroked F20b..

F20b block.. bored out to 86mm
F23 crank & rods
F23 pistons

you would'nt need to machine the crank or rod journals.
all F series blocks have the same deck height.. and the F23 crank & rods/pistons would give you adequate power increase... although this is only in theory from a few sketches I've drawn up from the specs I got online.

although for some reason my math does'nt add up right.. whenever I add up the stroke (3.346) + rod length(5.709) + piston compresson height(1.221) it goes WAY beyond the Deck height measurement.. even on a completely stock engine.. a stock F20B adds up to 10.276" yet the deck height is 8.643"

and my combo adds up to (3.818+5.551+1.181) 10.55" on the same deck height of 8.643".. what's up here? sombody fill me in? I even wondered if it had something to do with the head gasket thickness.. but at .026 it's just not happening..

however.. considering how close those numbers are.. this is a feasible engine setup. and would give you a stroked F20 block to which you could place nearly any head you wanted to.. (personally I'd go with the F23a1 Vtec head, or if you want tunability an H22 head) I'm not sure about compression ratio.. but the stroke & bore increase (while not a whole lot).. will get a good improvement on the lower end grunt for the F20b..

someone else chime in, and let me know where I'm wrong..

[92accord]

if you bore out a f20b to 86mm, use the f23 pistons, rods, and crank,then happen to use a f23a1 vtec head. you would have exactly a f23a1 motor stamped as a f20b. think about it. that would be a huge waste of money. how ever, if you had a f20b dohc vtec head to go with this bottom end setup, you would then make more power. or even be close to the same power as a stock f20b due to the fact that the f20b is stock with high comp pistons.

[killah_zccord]

then why not run a F23 crank&rods and F20b pistons.. in the F20 block. a truely stroked F20b.. sorry I was'nt thinking straight.. look at my timestamp on that post. I'd only be worried about the deck height on that one.. but if the F23 is too much.. the F22a1 stroke is 2mm less, but still more than the F20b.. also if you cann't get that to work.. you can do offcenter grinds on the crankshaft.. to correct for the deck height.. just requires some custom rod bearings.

[92accord]

k, the f20b has slightly shorter rods than the f22 or f23, also the f20b stroke is 88mm where as the f22 or 23 is a 95mm stroke. so if you use the stock f20b high comp pistons with the f22 or f23 crank it will send the pistons straight into the head. the f20b has a shorter stroke to compensate for the dome top pistons. my honest opinion, not to knock on your ideas, they do sound interesting, but i think it would be to much work yet to much money to have a custom cut on the crank like that. thats why I just using ALL f20b internals in a f22a block with a f23 head. basiclly i'm just taking a stock f20b engine and converting it from dohc to sohc, but only because i was given the bottom end with out the dual cam head, plus the f20b block was cracked. so i had these three engines just lying around so i gonna use all of them to make something, and the only customizing i have to do is get the crank mains cut, which is only $150 and a days time. simple

[92accord]

I'm looking for a P28 ECU, if any of you have one for sale or know anyone who does. please let me know

[acrite]

hows that build coming along so far

[92accord]

i haven't worked on it lately. I've been to busy with work and all. I hoping to get back on it sometime next week. I have a few pictures of the build as well that i need to post up. I'll get them up soon

[ninjafoo]

that cool me and my uncle are runiing an h22 with an f20b head

[BlaZeNem]

what part of az you in man?