h22 swap or f22 turbo

[RicerAccord]

I have been presented with a good deal a complete h22 swap with 5-speed trans for 800 bucks to go in my 92 accord. It would be a nice 200 horsepower up from about 125 out of the f22. But I can take that same 800 and get a good turbo setup and probably make more horsepower than the stock h22. My thing is that if i get the h22 I eventually want turbo so I have to buy the swap then buy a turbo where as my motor still runs good has good compression so I can just buy a turbo and have instant power and spend the other money on other things. Any suggestions positive or constructive are helpful. Thanks

[tokyospeedpros]

I have been presented with a good deal a complete h22 swap with 5-speed trans for 800 bucks to go in my 92 accord. It would be a nice 200 horsepower up from about 125 out of the f22. But I can take that same 800 and get a good turbo setup and probably make more horsepower than the stock h22. My thing is that if i get the h22 I eventually want turbo so I have to buy the swap then buy a turbo where as my motor still runs good has good compression so I can just buy a turbo and have instant power and spend the other money on other things. Any suggestions positive or constructive are helpful. Thanks

I worry about an $800 turbo setup and the swap to be honest, reliability sakes if the H22 is LEGIT and compression tests well then go all motor. Just my .02 I guess. Save your money and do it right the first time. Saves money in the long run!

[RicerAccord]

I worry about an $800 turbo setup and the swap to be honest, reliability sakes if the H22 is LEGIT and compression tests well then go all motor. Just my .02 I guess. Save your money and do it right the first time. Saves money in the long run!

The guy that told me about the motor has a 92 civic hatch with an ls swap and says that his buddy who did the swap for him has the motor its a usdm h22 out of a 95 prelude with approx. 60k. I guess if it was a reputiable shop I would feel more comfortable about it but then I wouldnt get it for no 800 bucks. The reason I say I can get a turbo setup for about the same is that I got a buddy that says he would give me a turbo just needs to be rebuilt so I am pretty sure I can get the other stuff for about 800.

[DJ Hookid]

If you dont buy the H22 i would be interested in purchasing it.

[Sproket]

I had the same problem to decide and finally went w/ H22a. Why b/c its a performace engine and breathes better. Much can be done to get a little more hp. It can handle a turbo on not to much psi and good tune. Tune is everything when talking turbo. I have fun just messing around with a P72 and Crome.
H22a vtec is a roar on P13.

[wadocrx]

I'm turboing my F22! Not in the mood to sawp yet another engine....

[Tacoma Luda]

I already had the f22 turbo last year. It was fun and everything, but now i have a Jdm h22 in my shit and its a whole lot more fun. my .02

[owequitit]

I don't think you will make $800 for a reliable turbo setup, but I have seen it done for about $1,000.

You can use a DSM turbo manifold and redrill the holes, and it will bolt right up to the F22A. Then you have any number of Mitsu turbos available to you, which can usually be had for cheap, especially depending on the model.

If you shop around for the piping and intercooler, then you can probably get both of those for reasonable amounts. You can always use a DSM intercooler, although they aren't very good. I know a lot of guys running Jonny Racecar intercoolers, which are also not the best, but are better than stock DSMs.

Then you have all the various other hardware bits, such as couplers, mounting hardward, BOV, wastegate controller etc.

Obviously, the most critical component is EMS, and a lot of the guys I know use Uberdata, or Crome, but that is really up to you. There is at least one guy boosting 14lbs on a stock F22 block with timing retard, and a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, so it CAN be done, although I don't think I would want to. He put down about 314WHP and had put well over 50K on it boosted the last time I heard from him.

As far as realistic expectations, at 8lbs of boost with a decent tune, you are probably looking at a little over 200WHP, and over 200lb/ft of torque, based on using a 14B which was the stock turbo in 1st gen DSMs. Depending on the setup, I have seen some guys lay down almost 250WHP, and as much torque at about 10-11PSI. A lot of guys also upgrade to the 16G, as it is a little more efficient, and larger. A 14b will usually be on full boost around 3K, and you will start to see a little bit of boost creep up top, unless you port the wastegate. It works for the F22, but it is a little smaller than ideal, but makes it very responsive.

The cool thing about boosting the F22A is that the head actually flows EXTREMELY well, but Honda put a small cam in it to make it streetable. With a good P&P they flow right up there with a K series head, so they naturally respond well to boost. They have even shown some improvement with a bigger cam.

The biggest common failure point is the ring landings. The rods seem to hold up pretty well to around 300WHP, so I wouldn't worry as much about that as I would with the cast pistons. Of course, if your engine has strong lands (no real way to verify), and you have a good tune, you should be OK with the 8.8:1 compression.

A couple things I might recommend in addition to a turbo, if you go that route, is an H23 intake manifold. It bolts right on to the engine, and the larger TB and larger intake plenum will certainly help power, especially up top. Also, you may want to try an F22A6 camshaft from a 1991 Accord SE, or a 1992-1993 EX/SE. It is slightly more aggressive than the F22A1 cam, and is good for almost 10HP on a bolt on F22.

As far as MY personal choice, I agree with TSP. I would go H22. They are reasonably fun, efficient, and pretty much guaranteed to be reliable, as long as the engine is in good condition, and you don't mess anything up. Plus, high rev fury is what Honda does best. Personally, if I wanted boost, I would find a good RWD Nissan and boost that.

Performance wise, the F22 turbo will most certainly be faster than the H22, especially in stock form. Also, with the H23 manifold and a mild cam, an F22A will pull pretty readily to about 6500-7000, so the H won't have a terrible RPM advantage either.

You have to decide if it is worth the risk to your engine first.

[jakellama123]

i have an h22a jdm for sale if u want it! block and head and intake manifold and jdm headers
and new pistons in the box and about 55k miles on it and distributor. all u need is an ecu and MAYBE mounts. i will have a p28 ecu outta my del sol soon. asking 700. PM me

[RicerAccord]

I don't think you will make $800 for a reliable turbo setup, but I have seen it done for about $1,000.

You can use a DSM turbo manifold and redrill the holes, and it will bolt right up to the F22A. Then you have any number of Mitsu turbos available to you, which can usually be had for cheap, especially depending on the model.

If you shop around for the piping and intercooler, then you can probably get both of those for reasonable amounts. You can always use a DSM intercooler, although they aren't very good. I know a lot of guys running Jonny Racecar intercoolers, which are also not the best, but are better than stock DSMs.

Then you have all the various other hardware bits, such as couplers, mounting hardward, BOV, wastegate controller etc.

Obviously, the most critical component is EMS, and a lot of the guys I know use Uberdata, or Crome, but that is really up to you. There is at least one guy boosting 14lbs on a stock F22 block with timing retard, and a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, so it CAN be done, although I don't think I would want to. He put down about 314WHP and had put well over 50K on it boosted the last time I heard from him.

As far as realistic expectations, at 8lbs of boost with a decent tune, you are probably looking at a little over 200WHP, and over 200lb/ft of torque, based on using a 14B which was the stock turbo in 1st gen DSMs. Depending on the setup, I have seen some guys lay down almost 250WHP, and as much torque at about 10-11PSI. A lot of guys also upgrade to the 16G, as it is a little more efficient, and larger. A 14b will usually be on full boost around 3K, and you will start to see a little bit of boost creep up top, unless you port the wastegate. It works for the F22, but it is a little smaller than ideal, but makes it very responsive.

The cool thing about boosting the F22A is that the head actually flows EXTREMELY well, but Honda put a small cam in it to make it streetable. With a good P&P they flow right up there with a K series head, so they naturally respond well to boost. They have even shown some improvement with a bigger cam.

The biggest common failure point is the ring landings. The rods seem to hold up pretty well to around 300WHP, so I wouldn't worry as much about that as I would with the cast pistons. Of course, if your engine has strong lands (no real way to verify), and you have a good tune, you should be OK with the 8.8:1 compression.

A couple things I might recommend in addition to a turbo, if you go that route, is an H23 intake manifold. It bolts right on to the engine, and the larger TB and larger intake plenum will certainly help power, especially up top. Also, you may want to try an F22A6 camshaft from a 1991 Accord SE, or a 1992-1993 EX/SE. It is slightly more aggressive than the F22A1 cam, and is good for almost 10HP on a bolt on F22.

As far as MY personal choice, I agree with TSP. I would go H22. They are reasonably fun, efficient, and pretty much guaranteed to be reliable, as long as the engine is in good condition, and you don't mess anything up. Plus, high rev fury is what Honda does best. Personally, if I wanted boost, I would find a good RWD Nissan and boost that.

Performance wise, the F22 turbo will most certainly be faster than the H22, especially in stock form. Also, with the H23 manifold and a mild cam, an F22A will pull pretty readily to about 6500-7000, so the H won't have a terrible RPM advantage either.

You have to decide if it is worth the risk to your engine first.

That was actually going to be one of my mods on the way to turbo I bought a parts car to do the manual swap and it has an f22a6 with a pt6 ecu I was going to use the intake and the cam and do that now. You said that should be about 10 horsepower extra is that just with the cam or with the intake cam and ecu

[Agent Smith]

in short.

BOOOOOOOOOST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott = Mr. knowledgeable long posts :crazy:

[owequitit]

That was actually going to be one of my mods on the way to turbo I bought a parts car to do the manual swap and it has an f22a6 with a pt6 ecu I was going to use the intake and the cam and do that now. You said that should be about 10 horsepower extra is that just with the cam or with the intake cam and ecu

The F22A6 is rated 15HP more than the F22A1. That includes the cam, the intake manifold, and the ECU, as well as an exhaust manifold. The exhaust manifold is worth approximately 5HP, so the other 10 is attributable to the cam, ecu, and intake manifold.

Also, if you were to put either 1) a full H23 intake manifold, or 2) an F22A6 intake manifold with an H series plenum and throttle body on your engine, it will increase the usable powerband substantially. When I was bolt on NA and did that, it had a nice improvement in low end, and pulled cleanly to 6800 RPM. Power started to taper off about 6200, which is much better than the stock 5300. It was well worth the effort IMO.

My mod list:

A6 cam, manifold and ECU swap

Header, highflow stock cat, and cat-back exhaust

modified stock airbox

Everything was relatively mild, but it was much more responsive, and made a great street engine. The OEM Honda mods were by far the most effective, and they were cheap to boot.

I got better MPG to boot. Keep in mind that is NA, but typically, less flow restriction will aid a boosted engine as well.

If you are currently NA with an F22A1 I would highly recommend it. Also, if you don't already have a 4-2-1 header, you might want to consider picking up the manifold from an F22A4 from a 90-91 EX, or from a 1991 SE's F22A6. The F22A4 and F22A6 both have a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, but the A4's is completely tubular, while the A6 has a cast upper half, and a tubular lower half. It might be an incremental improvement, but since you are buying one anyway, may as well get the good one. Realistically, these perform about as well as any aftermarket header that has a stock size collector.

[RicerAccord]

The F22A6 is rated 15HP more than the F22A1. That includes the cam, the intake manifold, and the ECU, as well as an exhaust manifold. The exhaust manifold is worth approximately 5HP, so the other 10 is attributable to the cam, ecu, and intake manifold.

Also, if you were to put either 1) a full H23 intake manifold, or 2) an F22A6 intake manifold with an H series plenum and throttle body on your engine, it will increase the usable powerband substantially. When I was bolt on NA and did that, it had a nice improvement in low end, and pulled cleanly to 6800 RPM. Power started to taper off about 6200, which is much better than the stock 5300. It was well worth the effort IMO.

My mod list:

A6 cam, manifold and ECU swap

Header, highflow stock cat, and cat-back exhaust

modified stock airbox

Everything was relatively mild, but it was much more responsive, and made a great street engine. The OEM Honda mods were by far the most effective, and they were cheap to boot.

I got better MPG to boot. Keep in mind that is NA, but typically, less flow restriction will aid a boosted engine as well.

If you are currently NA with an F22A1 I would highly recommend it. Also, if you don't already have a 4-2-1 header, you might want to consider picking up the manifold from an F22A4 from a 90-91 EX, or from a 1991 SE's F22A6. The F22A4 and F22A6 both have a 4-2-1 exhaust manifold, but the A4's is completely tubular, while the A6 has a cast upper half, and a tubular lower half. It might be an incremental improvement, but since you are buying one anyway, may as well get the good one. Realistically, these perform about as well as any aftermarket header that has a stock size collector.

I do already have a header on the car so when I swap the trans I will swap the intake manifold and cam at the same time I do have a cat back exhaust which is 2 inch but I am still running the stock cat. I was also wondering could I throw the pt6 ecu in now before I swap all the parts or will the car not run right also the ecu is from a manual car and mine is an automatic

[owequitit]

I do already have a header on the car so when I swap the trans I will swap the intake manifold and cam at the same time I do have a cat back exhaust which is 2 inch but I am still running the stock cat. I was also wondering could I throw the pt6 ecu in now before I swap all the parts or will the car not run right also the ecu is from a manual car and mine is an automatic

I don't know, I haven't tried that combo. I do know that the ECU and the TCU (tranny control unit) communicate, so I would expect to have some problems.

Honestly though it is pointless. The mapping etc is different, and it just won't do much without the mods it was designed for. I would just do everything when you swap the tranny. Then you also don't have to worry about any TCU issues.

[RicerAccord]

Thanks for all th info

[owequitit]

Thanks for all th info

No problem! Glad to help. Just keep us updated on what you decide to do.

[RicerAccord]

will do

[illwill]

I have seen my friend spend alot of money trying to get his F22B1 to run well. I told him not to turbo that engine. He did not listen. The ring land cracked, I saw first hand the boost creep. He bought another engine. I told him cut your losses sell the turbo kit. He didn't, he put it on the 2nd F22B1. Now he sold the car because he went through two engines. Both cracked their ring lands. Buy the H22 or do the mods owequitit recomends.

Good Luck!:hi:

[97turbodelsol]

if you want to turbo, this is the kit my brother bought and we installed. i got one for my sol, it ran like a champ, and a t3/t4 hybrid can go to 300-350 whp.
http://advancedjdmparts.com/product.php?productid=19118&cat=299&page=1

[skunk2h22lude]

h22 all da way!!!

[Lilrob]

i say turbo ftmfw