View Full Version : h2o to air VS. air to air for dd
Chinky
07-20-2007, 12:51 PM
been thinking about running one of those pwr water to air intercoolers over a convential front mount.
water to air seems way better performance wise, but also seems like a lot more work to maintain. distilled water only, having to keep it chilled, etc. and for dd i don't think i'll have distilled ice cubes on me. is there another way?
or the convential front mount less work and i assume the performance is that less of the water ro air.
opinions? thanks
I Hate Import Cars
07-20-2007, 01:15 PM
not sure, but I THINK that RO water will work as well. you just don't want all the corrosive minerals in there cause it'll eat at the aluminum, so you could make friends with someone at a water and ice store and fill up everyday. also, I could be wrong, but i don't think that it's NOT going to work if you just have room temp water, it just won't work AS WELL. As far as what works better? It seems to me that logically, if you can keep the water one at or below the ambient air temp, then it will be more efficient than the air to air one, but i could be wrong. Just a thought. :)
Mr.Burner
07-20-2007, 01:35 PM
i'm currently using water to air on my set up........and know a couple of people who use it and it works great......my set up is, a 5gal cell behind the pass seat and a heat exchanger in the front for extra cooling. Keep in mind. It depends on how much power your going to make to the size core you get. I use water and 40below.
Also not legal for SFWD comp.....
I like it works great........
Water to air also have a very low preasure drop, somthing like Less than 0.2 PSI
Chinky
07-20-2007, 02:12 PM
not sure, but I THINK that RO water will work as well. you just don't want all the corrosive minerals in there cause it'll eat at the aluminum, so you could make friends with someone at a water and ice store and fill up everyday. also, I could be wrong, but i don't think that it's NOT going to work if you just have room temp water, it just won't work AS WELL. As far as what works better? It seems to me that logically, if you can keep the water one at or below the ambient air temp, then it will be more efficient than the air to air one, but i could be wrong. Just a thought. :)
well yea for sure if u keep the water colder then def it'll run better. water to air pwns air to air cause it's hot as fuck out here
i'm currently using water to air on my set up........and know a couple of people who use it and it works great......my set up is, a 5gal cell behind the pass seat and a heat exchanger in the front for extra cooling. Keep in mind. It depends on how much power your going to make to the size core you get. I use water and 40below.
Also not legal for SFWD comp.....
I like it works great........
Water to air also have a very low preasure drop, somthing like Less than 0.2 PSI
yea i know it def runs stronger. i'm thinkin bout rockin a pwr for up to 500hp and only looking to put down hopefully 400 ish.
my question is not the performance aspect cause i know the air to water is better when u can get the water cold, and yea i know u have to run distilled water.
my question is upkeep during daily driving.
i mean if the car sits out in the sun for 8 hrs that water is gonna be a lil more then warm. how will this affect the setup? cause we all know we won't have cold distilled water on hand all the time.
Mr.Burner
07-20-2007, 02:29 PM
i would have it tuned on cold water and then when the water is warm the AIT should adjust accordingly..........
a good pump and heat exchanger in front of the radiator is a good idea.
you should be alright.
Chinky
07-20-2007, 02:43 PM
i would have it tuned on cold water and then when the water is warm the AIT should adjust accordingly..........
a good pump and heat exchanger in front of the radiator is a good idea.
you should be alright.
what's a heat exchanger?
and what's an AIT?
lol
Mr.Burner
07-20-2007, 03:32 PM
heat exchanger like a radiator.
AIR=Air Intake Temp.
Here's some pics of my EM1
most air/water intercoolers are pretty much track setups, they can be done for daily driving but a good bar/plate intercooler offers a good effieciency.
Chinky
07-23-2007, 09:23 AM
heat exchanger like a radiator.
AIR=Air Intake Temp.
Here's some pics of my EM1
how accordingly does the air change? cause if the water is warm it usually = warm air hence the water to air setup... right? and the heat exchanger is like a second radiator? i don't understand what the purpose of that is... lol thanks for the help man
most air/water intercoolers are pretty much track setups, they can be done for daily driving but a good bar/plate intercooler offers a good effieciency.
yea that's what i was thinking too. water to air = track. front mount = dd. i'm trying to gauge if the benefits of having the performance boost of the water to air is worth or even possible to maintain for daily driving purposes.
just get a quality and properly sized air/air FMIC and call it a day, some of the most powerful civic's run Air/Air
Mr.Burner
07-23-2007, 10:41 PM
just get a quality and properly sized air/air FMIC and call it a day, some of the most powerful civic's run Air/Air
And water to air....chuck seitsinger runs water to air making over 1,100hp.
Mr.Burner
07-23-2007, 10:42 PM
how accordingly does the air change? cause if the water is warm it usually = warm air hence the water to air setup... right? and the heat exchanger is like a second radiator? i don't understand what the purpose of that is... lol thanks for the help man
yea that's what i was thinking too. water to air = track. front mount = dd. i'm trying to gauge if the benefits of having the performance boost of the water to air is worth or even possible to maintain for daily driving purposes.
do online search on it and there is goods and bads........i like them
plus, with a big intercooler in the summer, whats cooling the charge air?
120 degree heat.......
water works better for me.
the heat exchanger is just for extra cooling......
Chinky
07-24-2007, 07:44 AM
do online search on it and there is goods and bads........i like them
plus, with a big intercooler in the summer, whats cooling the charge air?
120 degree heat.......
water works better for me.
the heat exchanger is just for extra cooling......
i already agree that water > air for cooling
what i wanna know is for daily driving maintanence. cause i don't want to have to keep putting in cold water or ice cubes in this bitch everytime i wanna drive. and obviously colder is best but how does it run on "room temp" or what ever the temp from when the car is sitting? and do you constantly put cold water in or ice cubes or u just leave it how ever it is?
my main concern is when the car is sitting all day in hot ass sun and the water inside the car heats up and u go to drive the car obviously the water will not be at optimal temp.
u said that it'll adjust accordingly. how?
i would like to run a water to air but don't how reasonable it is to do so.
and running warm water through the system is it still better than running a front mount with a hundred degree temp outside?
lol i feel like i keep asking the same questions. thanks guys
BigBlockCrx
07-24-2007, 06:52 PM
I think for a dd air to air ebay bar and plate would do just fine.
BigBlockCrx
07-24-2007, 06:55 PM
Also another little addition you could do is an intercooler sprayer on the air to air. Or a good water/methanol injection. Lots of boost cooling options.
this is retarded, i doubt your setup is going to be pushing anything worth writing home about, if its good enough for 700+whp hondas, itll work for you, not bashing on air/water its good, but its not necessary unless your going for some crazy numbers or its a track car, KISS, keep it simple stupid.
Mr.Burner
07-24-2007, 08:50 PM
he wanted to know about the differences, so yah we can agree on air to air is more tipical on the street and ya they work, but like you said. unless your making big numbers.....700hp... isn't that the whole point of boosting? LOLOL stupid
chinkey you could use whatever, either will work.
allmotorgsr
07-24-2007, 08:59 PM
this is retarded, i doubt your setup is going to be pushing anything worth writing home about, if its good enough for 700+whp hondas, itll work for you, not bashing on air/water its good, but its not necessary unless your going for some crazy numbers or its a track car, KISS, keep it simple stupid.
x3794398234
completely agreed
there is nothing wrong with an air/water setup, and when done correctly they can be very beneficial for keeping AITs down, however for anything short of an all out drag car its not necessary. :blunt:
MR burner i dont get what your argument is?
Chinky
07-25-2007, 07:50 AM
thanks exactly what i needed to know in the last 4 posts
Chinky
07-25-2007, 08:14 AM
lol one more thing before i go...
do i need to cut the front bumper to get necesary air flow? or can i just leave the lower grill on there? or does it even matter cause i would like to leave it but just wondering if makes a difference and how much of a difference?
and for those of you who don't know what part i am talking about
allmotorgsr
07-25-2007, 03:40 PM
he wanted to know about the differences, so yah we can agree on air to air is more tipical on the street and ya they work, but like you said. unless your making big numbers.....700hp... isn't that the whole point of boosting? LOLOL stupid
chinkey you could use whatever, either will work.
Thats our point
either will work just fine for your setup...
air/air just costs less and is much easier to setup and run correctly...
soooo.... Mr.Burner.....
as stated above... air/water is perfectly fine when done right...
however its horribly unpractical for a daily driven vehicle.
Mr.Burner
07-25-2007, 04:35 PM
^^^^yes sir........but i like them and i have some buddies who have them and love em....
you shouldnt daily a turbo'd honda any ways. imo
Chinky
07-26-2007, 07:19 AM
party pooper^^^^
grill question with the front mount please
Mr.Burner
07-26-2007, 09:16 AM
party pooper^^^^
grill question with the front mount please
:) It will be fine uncut......never had to cut mine when it was air/air.
and it looks better....
Chinky
07-26-2007, 10:43 AM
:) It will be fine uncut......never had to cut mine when it was air/air.
and it looks better....
werd. i have heard of water to air giving large whp increase. like 45whp
only time you would see an increase like that would be if there was something wrong with yo ur intercooler getting airflow, not properply sized, or maybe a combo of both, crazy huge setups might see big gains but most setups under 350whp wouldnt see big number increase, Honda tuning had did a test awaile ago with a h22 turbo track car, made like 700whp, they put a nitrous express intercooler chiller kit on it, it gained like 40whp or something along those lines
Chinky
07-26-2007, 11:04 AM
werd... so sounds like i'll be ok with a nice conventional front mount. i was also reading about some sort of water mister type thing that decrease temp. i assume it's kinda like the nitrous cool down kit anyone know anything bout that?
Mr.Burner
07-26-2007, 11:11 AM
it would work if the water was ice cold.....but then your running into water to air maintenance agian......and if you use a nitrous sprayier, it has to be tuned with it.
water sprayier seems like a mess any way.........
let me know if you want to do the intercooler sprayier, i have the sprayier and misc parts for it.
Chinky
07-26-2007, 11:35 AM
it would work if the water was ice cold.....but then your running into water to air maintenance agian......and if you use a nitrous sprayier, it has to be tuned with it.
water sprayier seems like a mess any way.........
let me know if you want to do the intercooler sprayier, i have the sprayier and misc parts for it.
the intercooler sprayer isn't it just like running nitrous? or is it less damaging to the block then say something like direct port?
Mr.Burner
07-26-2007, 12:10 PM
the intercooler sprayer isn't it just like running nitrous? or is it less damaging to the block then say something like direct port?
no no no.....it doesnt spray in the motor whats so ever.....it spray's on the intercooler core on the outside.... it just cools the charge air going through the intercooler.......then into the atmosphere.
Chinky
07-26-2007, 01:21 PM
no no no.....it doesnt spray in the motor whats so ever.....it spray's on the intercooler core on the outside.... it just cools the charge air going through the intercooler.......then into the atmosphere.
dope!
i pm'd you on more info that man thanks everyone for all the info! if u have any other ideas pass em on through thanks again
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