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View Full Version : doing a swap..just have a question


EP3-Hatch
09-11-2007, 09:39 PM
i am doing a k20a1 (2002-2005 Integra Type R Motor) Swap into my 02 ep. This means i am going from a 5 speed trans to a six speed. For the transmission swap, will it hook right up once i install it or is there other parts i need before the install. and one other question. Do i need to get bigger axles and convert from a 4 lug to a 5 lug to handle the power difference? or can i use the axles i have and just convert to a 5 lug? or just leave it as is.

the motor is on its way so kinda need to know as soon as possible. Thanks for all the advice :0

DirtyEP3
09-11-2007, 10:21 PM
check out http://ephatch.com/forums (http://www.ephatch.com/forum/index.php?) and http://k20a.org you should find most the answers you need. the motor and tranny should bolt right up, and i know you have to mod out your shifter box for the 6 speed. as far as axles i am not to sure one that.

azteamextreme
09-11-2007, 10:27 PM
i think the axles need to be change

DirtyEP3
09-11-2007, 10:35 PM
from what i was justreading the axles can be re-used. i'm not 100%.

kshirza1
09-12-2007, 12:04 AM
i am doing a k20a1 (2002-2005 Integra Type R Motor) Swap into my 02 ep. This means i am going from a 5 speed trans to a six speed. For the transmission swap, will it hook right up once i install it or is there other parts i need before the install. and one other question. Do i need to get bigger axles and convert from a 4 lug to a 5 lug to handle the power difference? or can i use the axles i have and just convert to a 5 lug? or just leave it as is.

the motor is on its way so kinda need to know as soon as possible. Thanks for all the advice :0

i had this swap done on my own EP......

>>>-since it come with power steering and you have eps (electronic power steering) you will need to use your idler pulley from your a3 to delete the power steering on the k20a (not a1)

>>>- your A3 harness will work

>>>-you to figure out a different header designed for the EP cause the DC5r one will not clear your EP front sway bar. the stock DC5r one is weird cause its a 2pc 4-2 to 2-1 header.

i used a DC5s DC race header... to which you will prob need an extended o2 sensor... this is the option you will most likely do after you do enough research. also made me need a DC5 of any kind mid pipe length to use with a DC5 header...... any EP muffler will work cause the axle back length in the same than DC5

>>>-i very much recommend motor mount inserts (vibrates more sucks), but crucial cause you will blow through stock ones quick

-you axles will work

>>>- the tranny will not have a reverse lockout..... also your shifter assembly is designed for 5spd so you will have to do a DIY and cut a notch of a part on the shifter assembly.

this piece needs to be cut... so take out

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1636/shiftmy1.gif (http://imageshack.us)

cut here... on red line

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/2864/oemju5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

>>>- since you EP gauge cluster does not show 9k revs i would recommend a EDM or JDM gauge cluster. if you do what most people who do this swap do (use EDM or JDM cluster) you will need to do another DIY on the cluster harness to make your AC interior light light up.

here's a DIY i wrote up on ephatch...

http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120176

>>>- also recommend Kpro since the stock PRC ecu (DC5r ecu) runs oddly rich @ vtec... kpro will smoothen this out and add massive tq & hp to the mid range.

>>>- naturally with kpro you will need to happily schedule a tune with Joe @ locash (please refer to locashracing.com website) to give you that sooth power band of goodness

please refer to my chart as a reference

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3460/image867resizeia1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

>>>- after that i will recommend highly is a DC5r 22mm rear sway from mat @ icb to help with major new found under steer for $85 from mats website jdmland.com (or the sweet progress one that attached to the lower tie bar combo. you may want to seriously consider changing you bound and rebound with some sort dampening to also help with grip

>>>- also some tires to again help with grip

my good friend your in for major swap and the most expensive of ALL Honda swaps for FF NA... i would recomend getting credit card ready or considering a a2 slight built (cams) or K24a2 with boost option for the same or more power for less) considering the k20a is 5.7-6k for the motor alone... unless you found mine at the insurance auctions wreck yard.

here are my mods and car for reference... mind you i was financially banging for this :0

http://www.arizonarsx.com/forums/vbpicgallery.php?do=view&g=53

if please leave kind comment

for more info please pm me or justind and mike are well informed as well.

DirtyEP3
09-12-2007, 08:39 AM
there u go. :)

EP3-Hatch
09-12-2007, 12:17 PM
Wow thanks man. Ya i have a big budget for this hench why im doing it lol.

You have been a big help. Ill look into the header issue after work today. I will get MMI and Torque Damp. for sure. Im goona wait to get the Kpro cuz i have a i-Vetc Controller from the motor already and ill play with it and see if i like it. if not illl just get the kpro.

And i don't need nex axles so that is awesome. Do i need to convert to a 5 lug tho? or will the 4 lug work just fine?

Im getting all new rims and tires so that will be taken care of. just need to konw about the lugs.

I already have the sway bar along with coilovers all around. i also got new rotars and pads.

Is there anything else you would recommend or something i missed?

Once again you have been A HUGE help!!! Thanks :-)

And let me know about those lugs so i can orders rims and tires asap

JustinD
09-12-2007, 03:02 PM
You have been a big help. Ill look into the header issue after work today. I will get MMI and Torque Damp. for sure. Im goona wait to get the Kpro cuz i have a i-Vetc Controller from the motor already and ill play with it and see if i like it. if not illl just get the kpro.

And i don't need nex axles so that is awesome. Do i need to convert to a 5 lug tho? or will the 4 lug work just fine?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT use a vtec controller.

for one thing, you would already have to have the type r ecu becuase your stock EP3 ecu will FUCK UP a k20a motor. So if you intend on using the JDM PRC Type R ecu, your fine for now and do not need to get kpro or a shitty vtec controller. The type r ecu will start and run your car with the k20a swap, but you will lose the immobilizer function for your car. If you have a garage, this isnt really a big deal until you get kpro. If you can, use the type r ecu until you have the money for kpro, then send your stock EP3 ecu in for kpro because it is already programmed for the immobilizer in your ingnition system.

and for the axles / lugs .... just keep the 4 lug and stock axles, they are STRONG. Holds multiple 300-400 HP supercharged / turbo ep3's on ephatch just fine....with slicks at the track even. it is fine. Unless of course your going for show to and want 5 lug, then you need to get the axles that go with the 5 lug swap you buy.

EP3-Hatch
09-12-2007, 06:21 PM
cool. then im gonna stay with the four lug then.

and what is so wrong with a VAFC-II? You can change your power band and set it to two settings. Plus it has many other uses then that...so why is it so bad? cuz many people have recommend it to me.

JustinD
09-12-2007, 09:17 PM
and what is so wrong with a VAFC-II? You can change your power band and set it to two settings. Plus it has many other uses then that...so why is it so bad? cuz many people have recommend it to me.

k-series engines make more power than older honda motors because of VTC. This is an oil pressure driven timing adjusting cam gear.

changing the VTEC point is not "changing your powerband".......why would you want to move your powerband anyways ? if you using a stock ecu, then thats about as good as it gets for that tune. if you not using a stock ecu (ie, kpro) , pay the money to get tuned and then you will truly have the best tune for your motor.

controllers are a thing of the past, i'm not even sold on the idea that they were good for older motors, they are a waste of money and a short cut if you ask me.

you already said you have a large budget for this project. If so, just do it once and do it right.....KPRO....you'll just be pissing away 300-400 or what ever those things go for. put that money towards the 900 kpro costs.

DirtyEP3
09-12-2007, 10:43 PM
listen to the man and not to mention read this. http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_electronics_detail.asp?id=260&pageNum=1
http://www.apexi-usa.com/support_faq.asp?id=19
scroll to the bottom of the page on both. i dont know where the idea gets given to people with K-series motors, that a VAFC-2 will work with it. apex'i says no. the only thing u can do with it is adjust your fuel maps. the adjustment with the afc is crude, and can not be fine tuned enough to make a huge difference. i had a afc tune by a pro in my GSR, when i took it out and ran on the stock ecu it ran faster. like JD said you got a big budget get the good stuff. hell if you dont like hondata, go with AEM full emanage. its a little more but it is plug and play also.

kshirza1
09-13-2007, 12:22 AM
k-series engines make more power than older honda motors because of VTC. This is an oil pressure driven timing adjusting cam gear.

changing the VTEC point is not "changing your powerband".......why would you want to move your powerband anyways ? if you using a stock ecu, then thats about as good as it gets for that tune. if you not using a stock ecu (ie, kpro) , pay the money to get tuned and then you will truly have the best tune for your motor.

controllers are a thing of the past, i'm not even sold on the idea that they were good for older motors, they are a waste of money and a short cut if you ask me.

you already said you have a large budget for this project. If so, just do it once and do it right.....KPRO....you'll just be pissing away 300-400 or what ever those things go for. put that money towards the 900 kpro costs.

this is very very crucial info... i dont know who recomended the vtec controller but that is major CRAP!! also pointless...

just do exactly what is said... these swaps are nothing like the past swaps or old motors, so where ever your info is coming from please forget it and listen well cause all the right info is presented to you here. all this info is from years of others research and trial and error. also the tq damper is a great "aid" not a replacement for a strong motormount.

there have only been two ep's to my knowlede that have done this swap and that is me and MIKE which is justind's roomate (or used to be??)... justine did something much much better with a k24a2 built and BP by IPS 280hp. take everything he sais literally.

good luck other wise!!

for more power (230whp) look into IPS K2 cams and uprated valve spring of your choice followed by another tune @ locash!

kshirza1
09-13-2007, 12:24 AM
listen to the man and not to mention read this. http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_electronics_detail.asp?id=260&pageNum=1
http://www.apexi-usa.com/support_faq.asp?id=19
scroll to the bottom of the page on both. i dont know where the idea gets given to people with K-series motors, that a VAFC-2 will work with it. apex'i says no. the only thing u can do with it is adjust your fuel maps. the adjustment with the afc is crude, and can not be fine tuned enough to make a huge difference. i had a afc tune by a pro in my GSR, when i took it out and ran on the stock ecu it ran faster. like JD said you got a big budget get the good stuff. hell if you dont like hondata, go with AEM full emanage. its a little more but it is plug and play also.

F the AEM piggy back... lol

Hondata for the k-series BALLER!!

DirtyEP3
09-13-2007, 12:28 PM
no not the piggy back, i was suggesting the EMS- plug and play. they actually work very well. has all the features of k-pro but it cost more. piggy back controllers are worthless. so actually AEM EMS=BALLER. lol http://www.aempower.com/ViewProduct.aspx?ProductID=481 i know what will be said so save the k-pro comments. i have seen this used before and it made some very good resluts, but it better for the cost of it.

EP3-Hatch
09-14-2007, 11:43 AM
lol ok. i will take care of that once the motor is in. I ordered MMI and a Torque dampener like you recommended. Gauges will come with the motor so no worries there. I think that should take care of everything until i start building the motor once i get a little more money. when that comes ill ask you guys for opinions. The only problem i have is the header at the moment but ill work that out. Thanks everyone for helping me, i would be stuck with out ya.

JustinD
09-14-2007, 02:44 PM
what problem do you have with the header ?

any EP3 or RSX race header will fit. Just if you do an RSX one, you will either have to get an RSX mid pipe or have your ep3 mid pipe modified at an exhaust shop.

kshirza1
09-17-2007, 12:28 PM
he's talking about the ITR header.

plus ive never seen a cluster come with the motor. thats cool. i was hoping you would ask which one and we would recomend the EDM one with mph.

so when does it arive? where did you order it from?

post up some pics of your car... with a good budjet you should have some cool stuff on it already. i wanna see

pics pics pics pics

kshirza1
12-08-2007, 03:27 AM
so where the swap??

LONESTAR
12-15-2007, 04:18 PM
Gonna go see the swap tonight at the pavs!

brian2333
12-15-2007, 04:26 PM
pics of swap

LONESTAR
12-15-2007, 09:50 PM
I couldn't make it out tonight but he's going to the meet tomorrow

1st red ts
12-16-2007, 03:16 AM
yo heads up man and to the rest of u guys on here i know im posting kind late but what ever......IF U HAVE A RSX OR A EP DOESNT MATTER CAUSE THEY HAVE I V-TEC, THERE IS NO V-TEC CONTROLLERS THAT WORK FOR R CARS SO PIONTLESS BUYING ONE..(unless its k-pro or something)..I ALWAYS SEE PPL BUYING THE APEXI, AND BLAH BLAH BUT IT DOESNT WORK SO DONT BUY IT.......UNLESS U WANT TO USE IT FOR OR OTHER SHIT THEN UR FINE......

I THOUHGT I MIGHT LET U KNOW....BUT BESIDES THAT GOODLOOK ON THE SWAP MAN

LONESTAR
12-17-2007, 06:41 AM
The swap looks sick as hell!

cbl240sx
12-22-2007, 11:30 PM
K-pro Ftmfw

PhoenixB16
12-23-2007, 11:57 AM
vtec controllers are trash k pro is the ONLY way to go. But the only downfall is shelling out 500 to tune it.