High idle, no vacuum leak. Wtf?

[I Hate Import Cars]

So, stock B16A2. Idle is around 1500rpm, sometimes running up as high as 2000rpm. Occasionally it idles at 900rpm (where it SHOULD be). Idles high for approx 5 seconds, then dips to around 800-900rpm, then immediately back up to 1500rpm. Manifold is tight, throttle body is tight, both have new gaskets. No vacuum leaks found. Any thoughts what it could be? It's RUNNING fine, but that idle is bugging the shit out of me, so any help would be rockin. Thanks.

[bluferio]

check the throttle body check valve on the top. or get a new iacv

[I Hate Import Cars]

Check valve?

[YewllowDA]

theres an idle adjustment screw on the throttle body, that could be played with.

[Wholesaler]

there is two holes on the inside of your throttle body . Put your finger over each individually... if it stops when you plug the top one its the iacv, the bottom its your fitv

[I Hate Import Cars]

I'm lost. First, what's a FITV? Here's the deal. I went through the manual and set the idle adjustment screw the way it says to, but it did nothing. If I turned it in all the way or out all the way, nothing changed. If I disconnect the IAC valve connector, nothing changes. It starts misfiring a little, but that's it. Idle speed is still at like 2000rpm. So this morning, it is idling cold at 2300rpm! I let it warm up and it comes back "down" to 2000rpm, but no lower. So I disconnect the battery for like 10 minutes, then reconnect it. Now it's down to like 1500rpm again, but still creeps up from time to time. I don't know what the f is going on. All vacuum ports are plugged, all gaskets are new and facing the right way, all parts are tight. It is sealed up totally. I am lost. Oh, it's all stock with a stock tune, if that helps at all. I have a CEL on, but it flickers, (which is wierd to me), instead of staying on constantly. I haven't gotten the code out yet cause I'm retarded and can't find the OBD1 DLC! (also don't know what to jump where to get codes on OBD1)

[Wholesaler]

Most likely is the fitv if its doing it when its cold.. Do what I suggested to make sure and I will tell you how to remedy it

[I Hate Import Cars]

Still don't know what FITV is. It's not only when it's cold. It's all the time. But you know how it kicks up the rpm's like 2 or 3 hundred, just til it warms up? Is THAT what you're talking about? Because that's how it USED to run, and everything was fine. Start up cold and it idles at like 1100-1200rpm, then once it's warm, it idles at 900rpm. If that's what you're talking about, then yes, I understand that. What I am saying is that it still does that, only it is idling at 2000-2200rpm cold, then drops to 1900-2000rpm once it's warm. So the circuit saying to lower idle by a few hundred rpm once it's warm is working just fine. The problem is that it is idling at 2000rpm, so dropping a few hundred when it warms up leaves it still being WAY above normal. I am going to put a known good, stock ECU on it tonight and see if it goes away. We'll see.

[Wholesaler]

Ok nvm my trying to help

[2fnfast]

hey,find your map sensor and while the engine in on,unplug a hose,and does it idle fine?

and don't drive the car with the hose unplug,:P

[YewllowDA]

you said it does all the time. so i figure its IACV since it controls the idle when the engine has warmed up.

hope this helps...g2ic.com (http://g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35534)

[YewllowDA]

Still don't know what FITV is. It's not only when it's cold. It's all the time. But you know how it kicks up the rpm's like 2 or 3 hundred, just til it warms up? Is THAT what you're talking about? Because that's how it USED to run, and everything was fine. Start up cold and it idles at like 1100-1200rpm, then once it's warm, it idles at 900rpm. If that's what you're talking about, then yes, I understand that. What I am saying is that it still does that, only it is idling at 2000-2200rpm cold, then drops to 1900-2000rpm once it's warm. So the circuit saying to lower idle by a few hundred rpm once it's warm is working just fine. The problem is that it is idling at 2000rpm, so dropping a few hundred when it warms up leaves it still being WAY above normal. I am going to put a known good, stock ECU on it tonight and see if it goes away. We'll see.

FITV = idle control when cold
IACV = idle control when warm

[I Hate Import Cars]

So, wanna know what the fuck happened? It's pretty fuckin strange...

[YewllowDA]

im listenin..

[IntegraDA]

FITV - Fast Idle Thermal Valve
IACV - Idle-Air Control Valve

x2 im listening

[Wholesaler]

How does a fitv abbreviate to fast idle control valve

[IntegraDA]

^^oops, i meant Fast idle THERMAL valve. lol i had the IACV on my mind when i typed that. haha

[I Hate Import Cars]

So, my ECU was getting all fucked up on itself because it was getting no input from the BARO sensor, so it had nothing to compare the MAP reading to. So I looked, and looked, and looked...and looked...and couldn't figure out where the fuck the BARO sensor was.I was also confused because I KNEW that it wasn't under the hood, and that was the only place that I had done any work. Well after 3 days of looking and asking tearing my hair out, I finally found out that the BARO sensor is built into the ECU circuit board! So, we open it up, and low and behold, there is no BARO sensor in there! WTF?!?! Well, long story long, the chip was programmed for a stock USDM B16. I have a JDM B16 ECU. In Japan, they don't use BARO sensors in the ECU. DAMNIT! So it was looking for input from a sensor that wasn't there! It was lame, but I learned a lot, so game on!

[*inFamous*]

lol nice man nice!

[I Hate Import Cars]

Ain't it though??? I've decided that the theme phrase for this whole car is "What the fuck???"

[*inFamous*]

true that my man. just watchout for the word 'up'

[I Hate Import Cars]

Asshole.

[*inFamous*]

u love every minute of it kyle.

[I Hate Import Cars]

On the contrary. I have hated almost every minute of owning this car. Except the minutes when I'm driving it. : )

[kawgomoo]

chipped ecu's are generally a bad idea. most people use them as a bandaid for piece of shit wiring jobs on ther swaps, they just disable the sensors that toss codes. this is why you see so many swaps with "spoon" or "mugen" chips. bah

[I Hate Import Cars]

chipped ecu's are generally a bad idea. most people use them as a bandaid for piece of shit wiring jobs on ther swaps, they just disable the sensors that toss codes. this is why you see so many swaps with "spoon" or "mugen" chips. bah

Interesting...so you're saying I'm better off with a bone stock ECU for making power? Then I make my adjustments how? Guessing at it by adding more fuel pressure and timing? Ya that's a great idea. I totally see how that makes WAY more sense than having a program made specifically for your application by a professional tuner with an accurate dyno. DAMN! I've been going about this all wrong! And FYI, the cars wiring has NOTHING to do with this problem. The part that was creating the issue is INSIDE the ECU. Nothing is "wrong" period. I overlooked something when I was setting things up. That's it. No wiring issues. No chip issues. None of that. I missed something.

[kawgomoo]

i dont doubt you overlooked something.

im not saying you shouldnt tune a car, god youre a tool.

you never said if the car was built or not. so how do i know you need to tune it? it could merely be you did a swap and only had a p28 layin around so you chipped it. or you could have bought the whole swap or car already swapped and trying to figure out the issues with it.

buying a pre burnt chip is bad, tune it on the dyno and burn your own. thats slightly better.

if you use crome there is issue with there code that causes wonkie idle problems... allegedly. my bro's chip tuned h22 runs and idles fine.

the new aem interupt box is pretty decent, hondata is nice.. or you can always go full stand alone. aem, haltech, fast, mefi4, wolf, motec, the list is endless.

if you fancy yourself a tuner buy a eprom burner and a wideband like the rest of us and learn wtf your doin.

maybe you should just stick to carbs and advance weights and springs, seems to be more your speed.

[I Hate Import Cars]

i dont doubt you overlooked something.

im not saying you shouldnt tune a car, god youre a tool.

buying a pre burnt chip is bad, tune it on the dyno and burn your own. thats slightly better.

if you use crome there is issue with there code that causes wonkie idle problems... allegedly. my bro's chip tuned h22 runs and idles fine.

the new aem interupt box is pretty decent, hondata is nice.. or you can always go full stand alone. aem, haltech, fast, mefi4, wolf, motec, the list is endless.

if you fancy yourself a tuner buy a eprom burner and a wideband like the rest of us and learn wtf your doin.

OR...I could stick with my tuner I have NOW, because I have never had an issue with him, he has been BEYOND helpful, AND knows what the fuck he's doing. There's always THAT option...

I have no idea where the idea of a pre-burned chip came in, since I certainly didn't suggest it to anyone. I am with you on that. There is no "one size fits all" chip for ANY motor. That is assenine. My car has never had an issue that was related to the tune. I am humble enough to know and be able to admit that my tuner knows a hell of a lot more about tuning cars than I do, so why would I do it myself? I don't have the budget to be a "trial and error" type of a guy. I find something that I know works, and I stick with it. THAT'S why I don't just buy all the shit and do it myself. ;)

[kawgomoo]

i stick to the you want it done right you do it yourself credo...

thats why i con all my friends into buying the crap i need by convincing them they need it, then i let myself borrow it whenever i need it.

not a bad strategy i say.

the guys at xact always treat us pretty well. they retune all our rails the as&m fucks up.

the chips ive got from locash were OK, nothing spectacular. definately a size 11 shoe for a size ten foot so to say.

[I Hate Import Cars]

i stick to the you want it done right you do it yourself credo...

thats why i con all my friends into buying the crap i need by convincing them they need it, then i let myself borrow it whenever i need it.

not a bad strategy i say.

the guys at xact always treat us pretty well. they retune all our rails the as&m fucks up.

the chips ive got from locash were OK, nothing spectacular. definately a size 11 shoe for a size ten foot so to say.

HAHAHAHA!!!! You must have a bunch of rich suckers for friends! You lucky bastard... ;)

As for Locash's tuning, I'll just say this, and this has nothing to do with my experience with Joe. Just my own 2 bits; I would rather have a motor tuned safely and conservatively, possibly leaving a little power on the table, and be able to drive it how/when/where I want to without any worries, than to tune it for peak maxed out power and run it on the ragged edge all the time, where if ONE thing goes wrong, the motor is toast. I don't have the money to be able to run that risk. Some guys do, and I say GAME ON for them. I just don't. That's it.

[*inFamous*]

The thing i like about joe, is you can tell him to max out the HP, and he will, or ask him to keep it conservative

[kawgomoo]

well i always tell my buddies they can buy the crap i need to get it done or they can spend twice as much somewhere else and when its not right they can go spend yet more money. but investing in gear is always good and they learn something along the way. one step closer to being self sufficient. besides no one will treat your car as well as you would.

[Wholesaler]

The thing I like about joe, he is always down for a good ol' game of grab ass

[kawgomoo]

lol i have {thankfully} never experienced the wandering hands of locash.

[I Hate Import Cars]

^^^He only says "thankfully" BECAUSE he has never experienced it. ;)

[monSTIer]

The very first words of your post say it's a stock b16. Why do you need a chip? Unless you want to pull out more power than honda deemed reliable in all conditions. < But that goes against what you said about not wanting to tune for max hp. Just saying.

[I Hate Import Cars]

The very first words of your post say it's a stock b16. Why do you need a chip? Unless you want to pull out more power than honda deemed reliable in all conditions. < But that goes against what you said about not wanting to tune for max hp. Just saying.

Very true. Sorry I should have explained. This motor was built for a particular use, but things went south. It's a B16A2 with JE 10.7:1 forged pistons, Total Seal Hellfire hardened steel nitrous rings, Eagle H Beam rods, Comp Cams Stage 2 cams and valve train, ARP head and main studs, bored throttle body, ported head and match ported manifold, 150 shot wet direct port nitrous, and all the rotating assembly is balanced. This was SUPPOSED to be a gnarly nitrous monster, but I fucked up and paid a "reliable" race shop to build it. Well in reality, "reliable" meant "fucking worthless". It took oil from day 1, to the tune of about 2 quarts a week. Long story short, they fucked up the final hone (320 grit, instead of the 600-800 grit finish that it SHOULD HAVE had) so the rings were hammered. I had the car tuned by Joe at Locash from the get go because I ASSUMED that the motor was put together correctly, and thus had no reason not to have it tuned. That motor was built specifically to run on a heavy hit of nitrous. I never even got to tune the nitrous because it was so obvious to Joe that something was wrong internally that he didn't want to risk it. Smart man.

I ended up in a huge battle with the engine builder, but we came to an out of court settlement and I am now moving forward. So I had a different, GREAT machine shop hone it to clean it up, bought new rings and put it all back together, and it runs great. For a stock B16, that is. doesn't burn a bit of oil, runs great, no problems. It's amazing how things work when they're done RIGHT! Anyway, I am in the middle of building a new short block for the car, so for now it is all back to basically stock, just to be my daily driver until the new short block is done. So basically, I have a bone stock B16A2 with all forged internals, making stock power. Sounds like a waste of a lot of money, don't it? Well you're right, so fuck you. As a side note, I will soon have a B16A2 short block with all forged and balanced internals for sale, if you know anyone who is interested. ;)