Cage...

[SlowCivicHmm]

I want to have some cage work done...


who do you guys use/suggest...

got a 4pt bolt in but I need a harness bar welded in and an x brace....plus backing plates and install......LMK....thx..


Joser

[topramn]

ums tuning...

[SlowCivicHmm]

Thx....I just need the X from main loop to rear connecting points and the harness bar... maybe the lower bar as seen below from the rear point to lower main loop.....

auto power cages are just steel right??

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/IMG_0025.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/IMG_0030-1.jpg

[topramn]

Thx....I just need the X from main loop to rear connecting points and the harness bar... maybe the lower bar as seen below from the rear point to lower main loop.....

auto power cages are just steel right??

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/IMG_0025.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/IMG_0030-1.jpg

yep.. i take it you just got the 4pt hoop without the crossmembers?

[SlowCivicHmm]

I got the main loop w/bolt up diagonal and 2 back posts which is fine......I'd like for sure a bolt up harness bar across the main loop.......might aswell do the x brace ya know....

[topramn]

definitely.. talk to jeremy (kineticGSR).. im sure he can get you going in the right direction..

[SlowCivicHmm]

thx bro.....def say whats up next time at the track...I know no one other than the old track whores from 2-3 years ago...lol....

thx for the help....I'll PM jeremy...

[topramn]

your not the guy that ran the firebird event a few months ago? with the integra?

[SlowCivicHmm]

nah...I only have the teal hatch.......last time I ran a track was FIR West in Oct 04... :-( This Spring DAMN IT!! lol....

[eddie12]

try auto competition in huachuca city they do all that stuff and their good everything they do id NHRA approved so if ur takin it to the track they can hook it up..

[SlowCivicHmm]

I need SCCA approved.....I'm sure they can do it aswell....

I'm looking for something local....and at a good price/knowledge on set up....

thx for the info though....

[SlowCivicHmm]

your not the guy that ran the firebird event a few months ago? with the integra?


who does corner weight-ing(sp?) and alignments??? Most shops won't know what to do with my adjustablity..lol

[topramn]

NHRA approved cages dont usually dont meet road racing specs.. UMS will build the cage or modify yours to meet any specs you need met..

[topramn]

who does corner weight-ing(sp?) and alignments??? Most shops won't know what to do with my adjustablity..lol

umm.. not sure.. ask jeremy..

[LoooseGSR]

who does corner weight-ing(sp?) and alignments??? Most shops won't know what to do with my adjustablity..lol

Dan Sturla used Sears on 44th and Thomas I think, came with a 3 month warranty and they set his car up whatever way he wanted.

[PhoenixB16]

I used big o for my ghettoriffic toe settings.

[BlueTeg]

who does corner weight-ing(sp?) and alignments??? Most shops won't know what to do with my adjustablity..lol

I've used Campus Alignment at Scottsdale & Curry for about 3 years now for "race" alignments. Most places won't / can't align the car with more than 2.0 degrees of negative camber (their machines don't work in that range) much less get a lowered Honda on the rack.
IIRC I'm running -3.5 in front and -2.0 in the rear.

[eddie12]

if u get anything other then nhra approved u cant run at the track i dont know how many time u go there but im gettin mine done there next month 8 point 4 350 welded or bolt.

[SlowCivicHmm]

Thanks for the reply's guys...........

Well I've used "Jacks Alignment" over on thomas near 36th st for alignments before. They do pit style "old skoool" aligments. They bust out the scorer and measuring tape and strings/leverls.........any car fits no matter how low it sits. I have clearance issues w/my exhaust and lower tie bar on most racks. Network couldn't do my last alignment (before Jacks) cuz I was too low they said,.......

Reason I ask for a place that can do corner weighting and all that is to get the car dialed in more properly. Jacks knows there stuff, but the import/fwd is new to them, they set it to my spec. and with the full race traction bar and adding a lil caster to a car thats meant to be non adjustable they might not know etc etc

I have an HT thread I'll link here with my set up...see if you guys can help me out...

Joser

[SlowCivicHmm]

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2163300

[topramn]

if u get anything other then nhra approved u cant run at the track i dont know how many time u go there but im gettin mine done there next month 8 point 4 350 welded or bolt.

pay close attention to what section this is in.. let me make it clearer...


SPIRITED DRIVING > THE TRACK > ROAD RACING & AUTO-X


:hithead: we dont care about NHRA rules. they mean nothing to us. everyone posting about this with the exception of yourself likes to turn while driving on track. KBYE.

[SlowCivicHmm]

lol

[LoooseGSR]

if u get anything other then nhra approved u cant run at the track i dont know how many time u go there but im gettin mine done there next month 8 point 4 350 welded or bolt.

ummmm...what Ramen said, I've been doing this longer than pretty much anyone else on the forum other than a handful number of people, and as a former Chief Tech Official, I can tell you, the CCR's say NOTHING about NHRA being legal, I've seen NHRA cages, and they do not provide the protection required to do what we do, if you want to get a cage done there and plan to eventually race, make sure you get a sawzall and a bunch of blades because you'll be cutting that shit out.

Hey Joser, where did you get those bumper quick releases, I need to get a set asap and also, most newer Hunter Alignment racks are ok for our cars to get up, I have pretty much the same exhaust you do, and even with a really low lip, i was able to get up on the rack without any big issues.

[hectorg4444]

CAB FAB in northern Phoenix did fresh_mannys car. Came out good. The guy dosent bullshit u around.
Pm me if u want his number.

[FabricatorX]

We are scca/nhra legal. Give us a call 480-862-2209

[kawgomoo]

hit me up if you need cage work done, i dont usually do cars so you will have to tell me what you want dont in order for it to be legal or meet whatever you want it to meet. however i am a professional fabricator by trade. i build cars that flip end over end over end well over 100mph and come out with little more than some aluminium damage and scuffs on the powder coat.

i only stock chromoly tubing, but ill get dom or mild if thats what you want.

prices are cheap too, i can do what you need at my real shop or at my off hours shop behind my house. your choice. one costs a whole lot less.

heres a crappy vid of a car i built at work, also anything i do is tig'd since my mig is a pile of crap only used for tacking tubes in place on occasion. http://youtube.com/watch?v=CvK4ZDcwoFw
2200 lbs, ls1 mid engine, twin t88, 1200+ whp. insane car, lots of fun.

[SlowCivicHmm]

wow, I'll deff hit a few places up to get quotes or see what they think about my set up.....

the crazy part I see is I want to keep the cage bolt on and off.....or complete removable.....

but since I'm trying to get some seat time this month and maybe set up for PIR in Jan...I might delay the cage dunno..........gotta see if xmas allows......

The harness bar alone might not be a bad idea....let me post pics...

[SlowCivicHmm]

this is the exsisting set up I have....no harness bar...

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/1.jpg

Autopower did offer the same cage w/removable harness bar (I was just lucky enough not to get that for the deal I got this cage for...lol)

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/2.jpg

I want that exact set up...close up of connecting point....

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/3.jpg

So the work I would need done is the harness bar bent/offset back w/tab's welded on to the mainloop to bolt the bar on.....I would also need 2 holes drilled to connect the 2 rear connecting points to the main loop at the slip over point for the bolts to go through, I would also help setting the bar in place but need the drilling into the car & backing plates cut/drilled to properly install everything....all the metal work is what I can't do........or don't have tools to do it with....I'd definately like to help w/the install aswell....

Then if not now/later I'd like to add the following in yellow...

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/cagepaint.jpg

As I mentioned I'd like to keep it bolt on....so not sure if we could incorporate autopowers slip-over design at all the new connecting points.....

Here and where the bar connects to the lower part of the main loop to triangulate the set up..

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s291/HoseBeee_photo/cagepaint2.jpg

Just my crazy idea......I'd eventually bolt it off and swap chasis, reason I want to keep it bolt on....

thx for your help...

[SlowCivicHmm]

ummmm...what Ramen said, I've been doing this longer than pretty much anyone else on the forum other than a handful number of people, and as a former Chief Tech Official, I can tell you, the CCR's say NOTHING about NHRA being legal, I've seen NHRA cages, and they do not provide the protection required to do what we do, if you want to get a cage done there and plan to eventually race, make sure you get a sawzall and a bunch of blades because you'll be cutting that shit out.

Hey Joser, where did you get those bumper quick releases, I need to get a set asap and also, most newer Hunter Alignment racks are ok for our cars to get up, I have pretty much the same exhaust you do, and even with a really low lip, i was able to get up on the rack without any big issues.

I got them on HT along time ago...Perpectual concepts or something like that was the dealer....

do a search for SRR and they have a HUGE thread on products they sell....a whole kit cost like 40 and I have a kit on my car, jeremy (red eg) has a kit and I gave one away....they give you way to many points to connect......

[kawgomoo]

pretty simple what you need done. any reason you want t he harness bar to be bolt in? i mean that is what holds you in the car so i would typically weld it instead of tabbing it on. id have to get a price on tubing but i know chromoly is about 3 bucks a foot. i charge 25/hour for labor which is pretty cheap i think :) let me know your schedule.

[SlowCivicHmm]

I'm pretty much free weekends........

I guess you are right about the harness bar.....I wasn't planning on doing the X and all that till I saw that hatch's set up.......I was mearly trying to mimic autopowers set up....

I guess even with the harness bar being weld in the cage would still be removable.....

as far as metal goes....I'm up for suggestions....I'd assume it would be easier if it were all the same metal for welding purposes right?? Also if its all the same, tech shouldn't be an issue....

[topramn]

i have the autopower with the "harness bar" pre welded in and can still take out the cage if needed.. i still say call jeremy at ums.. pretty sure you have to use DOM rather than chromoly..

[SlowCivicHmm]

Imma ask jeremy aswell....

I am lil concerned about tech...as long as I pass......this car is just for DE's....not comp racing....as long as they let me drive on track I dont care...lol


Joser

[kawgomoo]

lol no one will EVER tell you no this cage didnt pass cause you used chromoly instead of dom. dom is low quality material. chromoly is basically the cats ass. dom if used structurally will eventually crack from the stress of flexing over time. this is why we dont use it in our chassis.

if a mig welded mild steel cage will pass, then a 4130 tig'd cage surely is going to as well.

[topramn]

sorry.. i made a mistake.. it has to be welded a special way if its dom..

[kawgomoo]

dom is fine if welded mig or tig. some say never to tig chromoly, unless you normalize it after the process. some say never to mig it. truth be told chromo was designed to be welded with oxy acety but who the hell does that anymore? all the cars we build are chromoly mig welded, all the suspension components are the same material and tig welded. we have cars cartwheel end over well over 100mph with nothing more than cosmetic damage to the paint and panels.

we built a handful of chassis out of dom at customers request for cost savings when we first started. all those cars have since cracked after about 3 years of use. they dont fail at the welds but instead in the middle of the tubes where they flex. its just the nature of the beast. chromoly has about 20% spring back. so you have to bend it pretty far before you reach its point of memory and it actually stays bent. dom and plain mild have maybe 5% spring back. this means just a little bend or flex and the material remembers t hat bend and stays in that position. then when it flexes the other way it remembers that as well. when i say memory its really the material stretching on the long side radius of the bend. each stretch thins the tube a bit on the lsr or outside of the bend. after repeated torture the tube will fail. chromo cage that is properly designed cannot flex enough to make the material "remember" it was flexd or bent. thereby it always snaps back into its original shape.


not trying to pee on anyones cornflakes but building cages that protect my customers and there families lives is what i do for a living. i take it very seriously.

if you have a copy of the rulebook for whatever racing orginization you plan to race with i will make sure any work i do is exactly what they want to see and up to there code.

6 point dom bars are about 400 bucks, 10 point cages are about 1200 bucks.

[BlueTeg]

kawgomoo: Can you please PM your contact information?

I have a Kirk 4pt rollbar in my car now and am getting ready add the front "half" to make it a true cage. Likely around summer of next year.

Thanks,
Gabe

[kawgomoo]

pm'd

heres a fun little video of one of the cars we built at work. this is actually the bosses fathers ride. 1200+ whp ls1, twin t88's. 2300ish lbs. 40" tall paddles in the rear. the video sucks... but the car is alot of fun :)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CvK4ZDcwoFw

[Rufus]

Damn that rail looks badass

[SlowCivicHmm]

HUGE fishtail of sand....LOL pretty badass....

[monSTIer]

That suspension needs to be set up a little better. Maybe you guys should copy that off us too!!!!! Ha Ha!

[topramn]

if this thread turns into a bitchin match about who did what first, i will have it removed.. take your personal shit somewhere else..

[KrenzyRyan]

I need this bar welded in toooo

[kawgomoo]

jim's just talkin crap. he thinks everything that isnt a tatum has to be a knock off.....

we've designed most of the tatum/bump steer out of our cars. you should go look at some of those rolled tatums... surprised no one got killed with all those layed over cages and missed welds.


lol sorry mods not tryin to start anything.

anyone who needs anything welded fabbed whatever hit me up. my tig setup is portable so if all you need is welding i can come to you. if you need fab or fitup you gotta come to me.

[SlowCivicHmm]

some suspension issues came up....

let me settle that down and I'll let you know about the bar I need for sure...thx...

[kawgomoo]

its all good, ive been so busy lately its hard to find time to breathe, much less get anything done.

[Fathead Fabrication]

Hey if you sill need fab work done I can do stuff like this
http://i26.tinypic.com/30ksrx2.jpg
All tig welded

[KrenzyRyan]

Well mine isn't aluminum, but can you weld a harness bar in for me?

http://www.zornmasonry.com/Ryan/CRX/crxbuild%20048.jpg

[topramn]

it shouldnt be aluminum!

[KrenzyRyan]

lol, right when he said tig, I thought aluminum

[topramn]

tig welding can be done on several types of metals.. in the case of aluminum, its the easiest and cheapest way..

[KrenzyRyan]

SlowCivicHmm.......did you ever get that harness bar welded in?

[SlowCivicHmm]

nah sold my cage...didn't feel safe.....I need a 6pt....

[Kinetic]

Hey if you sill need fab work done I can do stuff like this
http://i26.tinypic.com/30ksrx2.jpg
All tig welded


I vouch for this guy...........


just watch out for the "matrix"..............

[PhoenixR]

i'll also vouch for fathead fabrication -- that cage that junior posted is in my car.

the quality of work is far and above most of the stuff out there right now. anybody is more than welcome to check out my car in person if they want to see an example of junior's work.

[KrenzyRyan]

Right on, I'm going to have to stop by there to get a harness bar welded in place. He has a shop on higley and southern right?

[topramn]

not that i am aware of.. unless thats where his house is..

[Fathead Fabrication]

Yes thats where I live you can call me @ 480-710-1142 if you need to get work done thanks for all the support guys, you forgot to throw in I am good looking.

[topramn]

Yes thats where I live you can call me @ 480-710-1142 if you need to get work done thanks for all the support guys, you forgot to throw in I am good looking.



prolly cause you arent..

[Kinetic]

prolly cause you arent..

x10000000000000000000000 and 1

[Tage]

nah sold my cage...didn't feel safe.....I need a 6pt....

6 pt is dangerout on the street (unless you plan to wear a helmet to go to the grocery store.

[SlowCivicHmm]

lol tage..

I said I need, not that i'm getting....hahaha

[bryans_k20]

If you guys need a little fab work I got a buddy who is pretty damn good. He has a tube bender and welder and all the good little stuff. He makes real nice stuff and really takes his time. He just bent up and welded in his own cage in his 1969 charger. He is a fellow engineering buddy of mine, super smart and can do anything. If you got any jobs you might want done pm me and I'll send you his number. Here are some pics of his cage. Its pretty nice, dont know if you can see it from the pics. But he actually designed it so people can still sit in the back, and the passenger door bar is pinned so it can swing out for easier access. Really nice.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/myk20eg/mikescage.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/myk20eg/mikesdoorbarjpg.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/myk20eg/mikesdoorbars.jpg

[BlueTeg]

He is a fellow engineering buddy of mine, super smart and can do anything.
Here are some pics of his cage. he actually designed it so people can still sit in the back


LOL, are you fucking kidding me?!
He sounds really smart. :crazy:

[PhoenixR]

If you guys need a little fab work I got a buddy who is pretty damn good. He has a tube bender and welder and all the good little stuff. He makes real nice stuff and really takes his time. He just bent up and welded in his own cage in his 1969 charger. He is a fellow engineering buddy of mine, super smart and can do anything. If you got any jobs you might want done pm me and I'll send you his number. Here are some pics of his cage. Its pretty nice, dont know if you can see it from the pics. But he actually designed it so people can still sit in the back, and the passenger door bar is pinned so it can swing out for easier access. Really nice.

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/myk20eg/mikescage.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/myk20eg/mikesdoorbarjpg.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i71/myk20eg/mikesdoorbars.jpg

wow.

where did you guys get your engineering degrees?

[bryans_k20]

LOL, are you fucking kidding me?!
He sounds really smart. :crazy:

Hey sorry, didn't know you were in the top ten of your graduating class in college. Guess I should have used average instead of smart. :roll:

[bryans_k20]

wow.

where did you guys get your engineering degrees?

We got them here at ASU whats the big deal. So a cage is simple, I was saying he could do anything. Want us to do some stress analysis on your chassis, want an FMECA performed on your suspension components, want the stress concentrations on your sway bars, want the fluid dynamics of your intake and exhaust mapped out on paper. I mean wtf???? Yah he is an engineer as am I, just saying were guys with a little experience on the technical side and still love to work on cars in our garages. Sorry if I offended any one with the big word "engineering", or "higher education". I'll tone it down next time and say he is some joe shmoe working out of his garage just eye-balling shit. :sucker:

[SlowCivicHmm]

We got them here at ASU whats the big deal. So a cage is simple, I was saying he could do anything. Want us to do some stress analysis on your chassis, want an FMECA performed on your suspension components, want the stress concentrations on your sway bars, want the fluid dynamics of your intake and exhaust mapped out on paper. I mean wtf???? Yah he is an engineer as am I, just saying were guys with a little experience on the technical side and still love to work on cars in our garages. Sorry if I offended any one with the big word "engineering", or "higher education". I'll tone it down next time and say he is some joe shmoe working out of his garage just eye-balling shit. :sucker:

what my buds where saying is that THOSE cages are not safe!!!

[BlueTeg]

Hey sorry, didn't know you were in the top ten of your graduating class in college. Guess I should have used average instead of smart. :roll:

Lets use some common sense here:

You are fabricating a roll cage to put a in a car. How in god's name do you think it is safe to put a passenger in the back with a bunch of metal pipes running every which way? What happens when you get into an accident their head smacks into the cage, specifically the rear support legs for the main hoop?

[BlueTeg]

So a cage is simple, I was saying he could do anything.

Want us to do some stress analysis on your chassis, want an FMECA performed on your suspension components, want the stress concentrations on your sway bars, want the fluid dynamics of your intake and exhaust mapped out on paper. I mean wtf????

Yah he is an engineer as am I, just saying were guys with a little experience on the technical side and still love to work on cars in our garages. Sorry if I offended any one with the big word "engineering", or "higher education".

I'll tone it down next time and say he is some joe shmoe working out of his garage just eye-balling shit. :sucker:


Really? Cause last time I checked getting clearences just right and making sure the welds are clean and strong was part of why a good roll cage costs upwards of $1500. I don't doubt that you guys are book smart and have a commanding knowlege of what you studied in school. But if you are building rollcages to accomodate passengers in the back seat, then I question your ability to practically apply your knowlege of math and physics to automobiles.

People called you out, not because you used big words for this board, rather because you touted your friend as being able to fabricate a rollcage. After you said the cage was fabbed so that people could sit in the back....and after seeing your side impact bars it was clear to us simple folk without engineering degrees that you (or your friend or whoever is welding these cages up) may lack the ability to apply your degree to a motorsports application.

An engineer who can also do the job of a technician is a rare breed. Paul Van Valkenburg (noted editor of Race Car Engineering Magazine), enthusiastic teacher to ME Students, and author of numerous books on the subject lamented that engineers nowadays don't roll up their sleeves and get to the floor with their fellow techs to really understand the practicalities of processes that need to be understood from firsthand experience when designing. Don't write off Joe Schmoe just cause he doesn't have a fancy 5 year degree or wears Dickies to work everyday....sometimes (read: often times) those are the guys that are fabbing the nicest and safest cages for people on all levels of racing. :thumbsup:

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Really? Cause last time I checked getting clearences just right and making sure the welds are clean and strong was part of why a good roll cage costs upwards of $1500. I don't doubt that you guys are book smart and have a commanding knowlege of what you studied in school. But if you are building rollcages to accomodate passengers in the back seat, then I question your ability to practically apply your knowlege of math and physics to automobiles.

People called you out, not because you used big words for this board, rather because you touted your friend as being able to fabricate a rollcage. After you said the cage was fabbed so that people could sit in the back....and after seeing your side impact bars it was clear to us simple folk without engineering degrees that you (or your friend or whoever is welding these cages up) may lack the ability to apply your degree to a motorsports application.

An engineer who can also do the job of a technician is a rare breed. Paul Van Valkenburg (noted editor of Race Car Engineering Magazine), enthusiastic teacher to ME Students, and author of numerous books on the subject lamented that engineers nowadays don't roll up their sleeves and get to the floor with their fellow techs to really understand the practicalities of processes that need to be understood from firsthand experience when designing. Don't write off Joe Schmoe just cause he doesn't have a fancy 5 year degree or wears Dickies to work everyday....sometimes (read: often times) those are the guys that are fabbing the nicest and safest cages for people on all levels of racing. :thumbsup:

Gabe - 1

brayns_k20 - fail

You can have ALL the pieces of paper you want that tell you and other people that you're smart but if you don't use that knowledge properly, you're just wasting time.

[SlowCivicHmm]

no worries.....let him come to tech with that cage....lol

[ILIKETODRIVE]

no worries.....let him come to tech with that cage....lol

Yup.

It'll pass tech at Hot Import Nights, right?

[SlowCivicHmm]

Yup.

It'll pass tech at Hot Import Nights, right?

nope....its not JDM!!

[bryans_k20]

Cage already passed tech! He has a neighbor that lives close who does the tech out at firebird;) And of course cages are not safe without a helmet, padding and proper restraint. Way to state the obvious. I said the cage was able to accommodate passengers, didn't say they were gonna hop in right now. He is building the car for Friday night drags. He thought it would be cool if he could load up two more passengers to take with him. Of course the passengers will have to wear helmets, he already has 4 full-face helmets in his garage, and of course the passengers will be proper restrained, they are also getting harnesses. And all bars will be wrapped with proper padding like any decent cage.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Cage already passed tech! He has a neighbor that lives close who does the tech out at firebird;) And of course cages are not safe without a helmet, padding and proper restraint. Way to state the obvious. I said the cage was able to accommodate passengers, didn't say they were gonna hop in right now. He is building the car for Friday night drags. He thought it would be cool if he could load up two more passengers to take with him. Of course the passengers will have to wear helmets, he already has 4 full-face helmets in his garage, and of course the passengers will be proper restrained, they are also getting harnesses. And all bars will be wrapped with proper padding like any decent cage.

You can't take more than 1 passenger with you at Firebird. PERIOD. They tell you at tech and announce it over the speaker system. Also, you can't take a passenger if the vehicle is tech'd to run 13.99's or quicker.

http://www.firebirdraceway.com/web/streetdrags.html (http://www.firebirdraceway.com/web/streetdrags.html)

Drag and road race cages are two different things. You should have stated that it was for drag in the first place.

[BlueTeg]

I said the cage was able to accommodate passengers, didn't say they were gonna hop in right now. He is building the car for Friday night drags. He thought it would be cool if he could load up two more passengers to take with him. Of course the passengers will have to wear helmets, he already has 4 full-face helmets in his garage, and of course the passengers will be proper restrained, they are also getting harnesses. And all bars will be wrapped with proper padding like any decent cage.

I still don't get it, maybe I'm just dumb.
You can't ride with passengers in the back at Firebird so what's the point of designing a cage to accomodate more than 2 passengers in the vehicle...or having 4 helmets....or having 4 seats with 4 harness restraint systems?

[bryans_k20]

I still don't get it, maybe I'm just dumb.
You can't ride with passengers in the back at Firebird so what's the point of designing a cage to accomodate more than 2 passengers in the vehicle...or having 4 helmets....or having 4 seats with 4 harness restraint systems?

Always assuming. Ever heard the saying, you know what happens when you assume, hopefully you know the rest. I am sorry if I didn't state it crystal clear. He wants to bring friends to Firebird, never did I state he wants to run down the track with them. Damn, if every thing isn't spelled out for you guys you jump to conclusion and need more explanation. I am sorry, I thought some things would go with out needing to be stated.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Wow.

You're just full of bullshit and double-talk. Ever thought of being a politician?

Goodbye toolbag.

[bryans_k20]

Wow.

You're just full of bullshit and double-talk. Ever thought of being a politician?

Goodbye toolbag.

Nope! Can't deal so well with ignorant people like yourself I guess.

[Kinetic]

maybe I should post a picture of Junior and some of the cage work he has done..............


bryans_k20: keep the BS out of this section....your buddy's cage is not that cool or impressive...especially in this crowd. We all track our cars and that cage scares the shit out of me.

If you want..I can post pics of a cage done by a former thug/criminal without a degree that I would trust more than what you posted.

BTW he has cages in several local track cars......nice ones...built in a garage no less

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Nope! Can't deal so well with ignorant people like yourself I guess.

How am I being ignorant?

You post up work your friend has done and ask if any of us want him to do work for us. We dismiss it based on REAL rules and regulations for NASA/SCCA/etc that state exactly how a cage needs to be made for their events.

You then say that it's for Friday Night Drags at Firebird and he made it that way to take passengers along. We again dismiss it based on NHRA and Firebird rules for drag racing.

You then say that you never said it was going to be raced, just driven there. You then also claim that basically we're idiots for assuming he was going to be racing it with 2+ passengers or even racing it at all.

Wow...just...wow.

[bryans_k20]

How am I being ignorant?

You post up work your friend has done and ask if any of us want him to do work for us. We dismiss it based on REAL rules and regulations for NASA/SCCA/etc that state exactly how a cage needs to be made for their events.

You then say that it's for Friday Night Drags at Firebird and he made it that way to take passengers along. We again dismiss it based on NHRA and Firebird rules for drag racing.

You then say that you never said it was going to be raced, just driven there. You then also claim that basically we're idiots for assuming he was going to be racing it with 2+ passengers or even racing it at all.

Wow...just...wow.

You assume too much. Passengers are taken to Firebird in vehicle. Then sole owner of vehicle runs vehicle down strip. Passengers watch from bleachers. Event ends, passengers return to vehicle and ride home in vehicle with driver. There, stated as easily as I could have put it. Guess I should have wrote that 10 posts ago to make you happy. And yes the cage is compliant and safe to run at Firebird.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

You assume too much. Passengers are taken to Firebird in vehicle. Then sole owner of vehicle runs vehicle down strip. Passengers watch from bleachers. Event ends, passengers return to vehicle and ride home in vehicle with driver. There, stated as easily as I could have put it. Guess I should have wrote that 10 posts ago to make you happy. And yes the cage is compliant and safe to run at Firebird.

Again, wow.

The way you worded everything in previous posts I would have looked stupid for not assuming he was going to try to race the car with passengers. Somehow, you managed the opposite.

Also, of course it's legal for Firebird. I doubt he'll run faster than an 11.5 in the 1/4 mile. You don't need any kind of cage for a vehicle that is not a convertible until you go 11.49 or quicker. However, if he does, he'll need a new cage because that one is not legal. I don't give a flying fuck who you say his neighbor is, it's not going to be legal for an 11.49 or quicker car. The design won't fly and neither will the size of the tubing used.

[bryans_k20]

Again, wow.

The way you worded everything in previous posts I would have looked stupid for not assuming he was going to try to race the car with passengers. Somehow, you managed the opposite.

Also, of course it's legal for Firebird. I doubt he'll run faster than an 11.5 in the 1/4 mile. You don't need any kind of cage for a vehicle that is not a convertible until you go 11.49 or quicker. However, if he does, he'll need a new cage because that one is not legal. I don't give a flying fuck who you say his neighbor is, it's not going to be legal for an 11.49 or quicker car. The design won't fly and neither will the size of the tubing used.

Well, when completed the car will weigh a little over 4k so I can yes its probably a good guess saying he wont best 11.5. But he is putting an Indy race motor in it. Not Indy the race cars, Indy the company that builds performance mopar engines. He wants a little over 800 on the motor, so maybe there is a chance it will best 11.5. Who knows? Traction is usually the deciding factor. Sorry if I worded everything screwy, I am an engineer I work with numbers all day. My ''engrish'' is not my strong point. Anyways that is the point of the car. To be a fun weekend runner, that is safer for the driver, yet can still handle taking the friends along to a few track runs. Plain and simple. My friend is good with a welder and the tube bender, he is helping his other friend mini-tub and build a cage for Bel-Air also. If anyone needs any odd mechanical or fab jobs, such as cages, he is avaible.:wave1:

[SlowCivicHmm]

I just don't see how a "pinned" door bar can be safe or useful....

can you use your degree to help out my dickie wearing no degree having ass out??

so its a 6pt but 2 points are not solid?? hmmmm

I think FB actually passes any cage as long as the car is slow....once the car actually runs a pass 11.45 or faster its a diff ball game....lol

I went with my buddy in a civic SOHC back in HS and they didn't even look at his cage (4pt/bolt in)....just checked batteryleaks and DONE!...his car was running 16's.....cage was padded.....didn't play no role in tech...cuz it was not needed....

I think for actual drag racing (non friday night drags) a log book comparable to NASA"s required race car log book is needed....and the cage is teched by a NHRA official off sight and logged for actual competition which friday night drags is not actually competition....

Enuff...can we lock this....or go post in the Drag Race/Track Section....lol

[bryans_k20]

I just don't see how a "pinned" door bar can be safe or useful....

can you use your degree to help out my dickie wearing no degree having ass out??

so its a 6pt but 2 points are not solid?? hmmmm

I think FB actually passes any cage as long as the car is slow....once the car actually runs a pass 11.45 or faster its a diff ball game....lol

I went with my buddy in a civic SOHC back in HS and they didn't even look at his cage (4pt/bolt in)....just checked batteryleaks and DONE!...his car was running 16's.....cage was padded.....didn't play no role in tech...cuz it was not needed....

I think for actual drag racing (non friday night drags) a log book comparable to NASA"s required race car log book is needed....and the cage is teched by a NHRA official off sight and logged for actual competition which friday night drags is not actually competition....

Enuff...can we lock this....or go post in the Drag Race/Track Section....lol



Its only the passenger side that is pinned. The door bar swings out so someone can hop in the back a little easier. The size of the pin is huge and made of a much stronger steel, its just as safe as any other door bar. The stress would be shear stress on the pin, so in other words the pin would have to be cut in half for the joint to fail. The bar would buckle or fracture well before that would ever happen. You know how on hitches on trucks, a pin is holding the entire load of the trailer. Same thing, the pin is even the same size. The reason the pins can support the load is cause its in shear. And shear forces on solid metal bars are huge. The forces needed to make a pin like that fail are insane, all the other material would fail first. Its perfectly safe. Its not like its the first time its been done, look it up on google and a lot of muscle cars have pinned door bars. And it is not a car that will be in competition, just for fun Friday night drags.

[BlueTeg]

Always assuming.


Not assuming, just reading what you type.

He wants to bring friends to Firebird, never did I state he wants to run down the track with them.


Ahh, actually yeah you did when you said this:

He thought it would be cool if he could load up two more passengers to take with him. Of course the passengers will have to wear helmets, he already has 4 full-face helmets in his garage, and of course the passengers will be proper restrained, they are also getting harnesses.


Here is what I think.
I think you had good intentions of posting up your friend's work in his car and offering his services up to the forum. Some people here called you out for a number of things like the cage not being able to pass tech at a road race event (we are in the road race/auto cross forum....not the drag forum) and the idea of you putting passengers in back (whether on the street or on the track) is just insane. Rather than acknowledge that your friend may ::gasp:: actually be wrong and suffer a bruised ego you quickly defended your friend's build and started back filling your story to hold water.

Regardless of what version you decide to go with, your friend is 'wrong'.
People in the backseat of a vehicle with a roll cage is dangerous, mmmkay!?!
http://www.talenty.pl/zdjecia_filmy/south_park_mr_mackey.jpg