drift4agze
12-03-2007, 05:34 PM
Alright, I've seen a lot of questions lately with simple turbo questions, and I'm extremely bored, so I figured why not do a little FAQ and see if I can answer some of these questions. I will run through parts, set-up, installation, and trouble-shooting with all the little things you might forget or miss. So here goes.
What do I need to do to be prepared for boosting?
Well, It depends how much boost you're going to run. Are you going to go for fastest D in america, or a daily driver with a bit of pep??? No matter what engine you boost, some things you want to make sure are in good order are your fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, oil condition (which shoud be checked regularly anyways) belts, and other mechanical parts. Just make sure the engine is in good working order before you put more stress on it. Make sure your ignition system is up to par for the boost. You can use the honda oem system, which is actually recommended. Except for spark plugs, which will be covered later. Make sure the head is in good working order, such as gasket, valves, even seals if you so feel. for the block, a compression test and leakdown test will greatly help you get prepared for boost. These are obviously not vital, but extremely important if you want extended engine life. some are more important than others, depending on engine life.
Alright, my engine is pristine, what parts do I need to be turbo?
This will be split into several sections, by parts.
engine: you can turbo any honda engine. but some are better than others. The best to turbo are the z6 and y8 because of the rod strengths. These can handle up to ABOUT (not a precise number, just a give-or-take) 200whp. you can turbo the a6, the d15b2, the jdm d15b, the sohc zc, the dohc zc, etc. best bet is to find out how much boost your engine can handle stock before boosting it. about 160 whp is a good place to start on any engine. (and if there's any arguments against this, please pm me and I will look into it) I'm most familiar with the y8 and z6, so most of my numbers will be in relation to those engines.
turbo: So now that you have your engine chosen, you have to choose a turbo. what's right for me? what's too small? what's too big? Some popular turbos are the t3, the t25/t28, and the t3/t4. you can run mitsu turbos such as the 15g and things like that, which are also popular. the 15g, 14b, 16g and the like are a good economical way to boost your baby. if you're looking for a nice daily driver, without huge whp goals, go with a t3 which can be found on saabs, volvos, and bought brand spankin' new. t3/t4 turbos are good for those bigger whp goals, and the guys who want to be big names in the world of cars. or if you want to whoop some serious ass on saturday nights. if this is your first turbo, and you're not sure you want to do a homemade kit, go with the edelbrock kit or the greddy kit. the edelbrock is the most complete out there, and won't steer you wrong. for a smaller price, but not lesser quality (only fewer parts) you can go with greddy. either kit will get you some nice power. to find turbos, or kits, look around on ebay, classifieds, or if you want new, go to sites like homemadeturbo.com and find a good dealer.
manifold: now that you have your turbo, it's time to find a manifold. You can go several ways, do a cheap cx/hx manifold set-up, where you merely cut it and adapt a flange to it. you can buy a manifold such as the ssautochrome manifold, get it re-welded with supports and better welds, although I don't know how much i personally trust this route. You can go with a cc-fab manifold: I actually ordered one myself. Another choice is to order a manifold kit from I believe bmcrace, and have a local shop weld it together for you, Or you can go full out, and get a lovefab set up, or other serious contenders such as hks, and the likes. I'm not too familiar with obx, but I have heard some horror stories from those. I would suggest stay with what is popular, because in the car world, most of the time it's popular for a reason. a good place to look for these are in classifieds, and on ebay. on ebay, be careful what you buy. if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
piping: this can be the most difficult buy of the turbo kit. I was lucky enough to find someone selling them. Otherwise you can find these on jcwhitney.com, or can get them custom made various places. Sizing can vary, but IMO a 2.25-2.50 diameter piping will do the work you need to get the job done. here's what you might want for bends:
1 Ubend preferably a tight bend with a radius of 3-4"
you need: 1 45º (for the throttle body)
4 90º #1 coming off the intercooler passenger side to the fender well, #2 to make an upwards turn through the frame hole (stock airbox hole) #3 to turn towards the throttle body and #4 off the "U" bend to the turbine outlet.
If you want to get fancy like I did get 2 extra 3" 45º for the turbine inlet/air filter mount. It sets up like a greddy inlet s pipe. I also recommend Ubendman. Excellent prices for mandrel bent pipe. Email RDelat2116@aol.com for a price quote. [thank you bizzar for these pipe selections!]
intercooler: by far, my best suggestion is johnnyracecar.com . these intercoolers are well made, and cheap due to the fact he's producing them in mass, not by order. you can get used intercoolers and such online, but be careful by the age, and condition. if it's too beat up, it won't be able to hold boost and become very insufficient. a johnnyracecar 5" or 6" will work with a fun daily driver, or even a car putting out high numbers. one of his intercoolers supported a 400hp car recently! Now some say that it's fine to run without an intercooler or what not, but it's not suggested to run without one for even low boost. you will not only gain some power, but have more effiency with your turbo when you add one. save your engine, and your turbo set-up, and just add one now. you'll thank yourself later.
bov: this is suprisingly important to the life of your turbo. the blow off valve releases unused air that otherwise would go back against your turbo, which can destroy the fins and greatly reduce the life of the turbo. some suggestions range from a 1g dsm bov, to a hks ssq bov. the hks is considered (with some discussion) the best due to the fact it doesn't really need care. you bolt it on, and don't worry about it. there's not different boost springs, it doesn't have danger of being stuck open or shut, among other things. other bov's include the greddy type S, which is commonly used, and even a volvo bov (bigwig ). you can find these for a range of prices. look around on classifieds, and on ebay. you can get them from 35 bucks, to 300 bucks. all depends on the deal you find.
Oil lines: my best suggestion is to check stealthmodeperformance.com for your turbo line needs. he has the best set-ups, for pretty cheap. otherwise, check homemadeturbo.com in the classifieds for ads for things such as this. without these, you're screwed. so get them!
downpipe/exhaust: your downpipe is what connects the turbo to the exhaust, and expels used exhaust gases. I found this the hardest thing to find/do. My best suggestion has come from bigwig, who gave me www.atpturbo.com . which carries flanges, gaskets, and all the turbo accessories you need. find the flange you need there, and then go to a muffler shop or perfeormance shop and have them fab up a downpipe for you. obviously, you'll need the turbo and manifold "mocked-up" for them when they do it so they can get a good exact fit. as for the cat, a high-flow cat IMO is the best option, but others run test pipes and such. just find out what your local emission laws and enforcment is like, and make a decision based on that. a lot of times, a muffler shop will fab up the cat/downpipe at one time. as for diameter, 2.5-3.0 is a good diameter to give you good backpressure w/o too much, or too little. as for exhaust, the diameter stays. it's preferred to do 3.0in incase you want to run more boost, but there's many guys running 2.5.
vacuum lines, etc: these can be found on various sites, and it all depends on your set-up as to how much/many you need. I got lucky and found some online that someone was selling, so search around. there's always someone with an idea as to what you can do/find.
fuel managment: BEST:hondata/turboedit/uberdata. (and even better, full stand-alone like aem ems) these give full range tuning capabilities. with hondata, you pay a lot, and uberdata and turbedit are coming up rapidly which will make hondata obsolete. with uberdata, you'll want an obd-1 ecu, and with turboedit, you'll want obd-0. if you have obd-2, like I had, buy a conversion harness, and an obd-1 ecu. if you have v-tec, go with the p28. obd-2 is not chippable, and a pain (and I can never remember the exact reason why...someone help me on this) but it has something to do with it doesn't have a PROM. anyways. ALRIGHT: Afc hack. these will give tuning capabilities, but only up to a certain point. it blocks the signal sent to your ecu, and changes it accordingly so that the ecu sends more fuel/less fuel accordingly. these can be had for a fair price in classifieds and on ebay. beware what you buy though. sometimes these can be totally trashed and un-usable. NOT SO GOOD:fmu. yeah, we all have that moment where we just want to run an fmu. an fmu works on the scale effect. let's say you have a 12:1, which i suggest is the best pick if you go with this set-up: for every part boost your fmu sees from the vacuum line, it adds 12 parts fuel. this is not tunable, but will do it's job up to a certain point. an fmu is partnered with a missing link which blocks the map sensor from seeing boost. injectors: these you will want to upgrade. you can possibly run stock with an fmu or afc hack, but it's extremely not recommended. if you're going for low to low-middle boost, you can use 310's/340's...and the like. the best suggestion is to go with 450's, and if needed a resistor box. 450's can be had for cheap, say 50-75$ off of a dsm.
spark plugs: these are tricky. I'm still debating on what I'm going to do. the best suggestion is to run ngk brk7e's that are two steps colder. i believe the code is bkr7e -1. if you don't run one step colder, you run a chance of melting a plug, which isn't fun, and can give you risk of detonation and the problems associated with turbos.
wastegates: some people have asked what an internal wastegate vs. an external wastegate does. and internal wastegate is a "factory" setting for the turbo as to how much boost it can run. this is most common on the turbos found on other cars, like the saab or volvo you got your t3 from. these can be changed, by a process. I'm not sure on how this is done, so do some searching, and I'm sure you can find something. (and if you do, pm me, and I'll edit this) external wastegates can be purchased pretty easily and mount onto your manifold. these control boost settings and have different sizes for different amounts of boost.
INTERNAL WASTEGATE
Pros:
-They are cheap
-The work pretty well
Cons:
-Known Spiking issues when used with large exhausts
-Dont have removable springs to raise boost pressure
External WG
Pros:
-Hold Boost extremely well
-Can buy various sized(38,40,44)
-Various springs available
Cons:
-Price
-Extra fabrication(dump tube/extra flange on manifold)
[thank you bigwig for this information]
extras: some other things you'll need include hosing and clamps for your i.c. piping which can be found at jcwhitney.com, atpturbo.com, or even on ebay. also, you'll need some gaskets which aren't too hard to find if you look around. also, at the very least, an air/fuel gauge and a boost gauge will get you set in the right direction. word to the wise: go to pepboys, or autozone, and buy the 20 dollar auto meter gauges. they're cheaper, and work just as well, if not better. Another extra is a fuel pump. this is sometimes overlooked, but face it. you're pushing more fuel, and the honda fuel pump won't last all that long. it's a good idea to up-grade this to be on the safe side.
how do I install this biznitch?
this can be found in the DIY forum. this is a great write up dxmann found. http://www.cse.uconn.edu/~yelevich/turbo/turbo.html
what are some problems I might see?
you could see anything from nothing at all, to smoking, to detonation. one thing that has been covered recently is smoking. if your turbo is smoking itself, it may just be grease and dirt burning off. some people get smoke naturally occuring with their set-up. if your set-up is, just watch it carefully, and if it doesn't go away, ask for some help in checking it out. also, if you're burning oil after a little while of boosting, you may have blown a headgasket. another thing to be careful of with the turbo is shaft play. if you're buying a used turbo, and not positive on it's former owners care of it, a rebuild kit may be in your best interest. if there's more than a milimeter of shaft play, it's a good idea to rebuild, or don't buy the turbo. if you put too much power through the engine, you may run into snapped rods and what not. if you do decide you need an aftermarket bottom end, there are plenty of great deals to be had. one good deal are the suzuki vitara pistons with eagle H beam rods. these have been tested to hold up extremely well.
one of the most overlooked parts of turboing a car, is the gas you run. no longer is your car just an econobox. you have to have more octane because of the added dense air particles. so your best bet is to run premium (93 i believe) and then if you can get it tuned for 87, that's perfectly fine. but 93 will be your best bet.
For you Uberdata interested guys - here's some links that might help shed some light on it:
http://www.ecimulti.org/uberdata/for...ex.php?board=7
http://home.mn.rr.com/keebler65/honda/index.html
an EXTREMELY helpful resource that I have read several times is the book, "Maximum Boost" by Corkey Bell. It gives indepth explanation of the things you need, the processes, why everything is happening, and also trouble-shooting.
another book that might help is "High-Performance Honda Builder's Handbook" by Joe Pettitt.
Also, be sure to pick up a haynes manual, and/or a helms manual so you have basic engine building knowledge to back you up!
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