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em2trackstar
10-07-2008, 05:13 PM
okay so im thinking of camming my car. i got two choices what should i go with:

crower stage 2 na 3/4 drag cam or
crower stage 3 full race cam

im gonna get the springs and retainers but want to know what you guys think.

the motor as of right now is looking to be an all motor car untill i get the right turbo i want and the money to buy it.

Jason.AZ1
10-07-2008, 05:24 PM
you wont find much help on azht for 7thgens

everyone will say go K
or Boost it stock..

so yeah but id say stage 3 cam

MrRline2010
10-07-2008, 05:32 PM
I would say neither with dyno time and so on your looking close to 1 g from what i've read and priced into it. that's half the price of a turbo. Save da money or if you do get a cam that can be used for turbo and na applications I think rufus mentioned it a while ago.

4dr_ed3
10-07-2008, 05:54 PM
im in the same boat as you joe im doing a little minnie me swap on my car tomorrow and i wanna get a cam to but im not up yet on all the info i need

em2trackstar
10-07-2008, 06:03 PM
the only problem with just saving for the turbo now is that i can find the one i want plus thats the last thing that will be going in my car. i dont want to boost it without the internals. its gonna be a full race car not a street car anymore so it will take time. big turbo is the way im going. most of the parts will be coming from dezod motorsports so one thing at a time.

EPthree04
10-07-2008, 07:07 PM
if it is going to be a "full race car" then dont use that motor. go kswap

jdmEG-6
10-07-2008, 08:31 PM
if it is going to be a "full race car" then dont use that motor. go kswap

:thumbsup::thumbsup: then do stage 3s

Jason.AZ1
10-07-2008, 08:38 PM
^^^^

you wont find much help on azht for 7thgens

everyone will say go K
or Boost it stock..

so yeah but id say stage 3 cam

what did I say

4dr_ed3
10-07-2008, 09:15 PM
^^^^



what did I say

lol ^^^ he did!! trust us weve all heard this 7090879756765475876585475 times b

FranktheTank
10-07-2008, 09:15 PM
^^^^



what did I say

To many People under estimate the D power!

Build that sohc and boost it.
Really otherwise your just going to be wasting your money on the cam and such.

I say save your money, Build, and boost :grin:

4dr_ed3
10-07-2008, 09:29 PM
what i dont understand is why cant someone just build there car to be just a little better than stock. why does having to boost or k swap have to be the answer????!!!! im not looking to spend sooooo much money right away that i dont have im doing small things to make my car to make just a little faster and ppl hate because im not spending 4gs on a swap or boost.... why cant i have a semi fast car for now?!!!

EPthree04
10-07-2008, 09:34 PM
what i dont understand is why cant someone just build there car to be just a little better than stock. why does having to boost or k swap have to be the answer

he said he wants a full race car. thats why boosting or k-swap has to be the answer. a cammed or tuned d17 will run 15sec 1/4 miles lol

GOTTRQ?
10-07-2008, 09:34 PM
Build it how YOU want to build it.. Everyone told me to build a turbo 306, but I said fuck 'em and built the 363 stroker I wanted. Now I couldn't be any happier with the results from the car I wanted to build for ME.

FranktheTank
10-07-2008, 09:41 PM
what i dont understand is why cant someone just build there car to be just a little better than stock. why does having to boost or k swap have to be the answer????!!!! im not looking to spend sooooo much money right away that i dont have im doing small things to make my car to make just a little faster and ppl hate because im not spending 4gs on a swap or boost.... why cant i have a semi fast car for now?!!!

You can't get semi fast out of a D though.
Unless you boost it.

4dr_ed3
10-07-2008, 09:41 PM
he said he wants a full race car. thats why boosting or k-swap has to be the answer. a cammed or tuned d17 will run 15sec 1/4 miles lol

nah i know he wants that but it pisses me off for ppl to tell you that you only have 2 options and thats it. thats bs

sniperscout
10-07-2008, 09:44 PM
if you are debating between stage 2 or 3 cams think about this...both require valvetrain, both are the same price. if you are concerned about idling, it wont be an issue. So with all that in mind why would you hinder yourself witha stage 2 cam?

Next question, what are you tuned on? If you say vafc your fucking stupid

4dr_ed3
10-07-2008, 09:45 PM
who are you asking^^^

sniperscout
10-07-2008, 09:46 PM
a d17 can be made into a race engine...its expensive and would require boost. It isnt an NA motor unless you are just looking to get slightly faster to keep up with those scion TCs lol

sniperscout
10-07-2008, 09:46 PM
who are you asking^^^

ummm i do believe there was a question on the first post

4dr_ed3
10-07-2008, 09:48 PM
well you posted below me so i thought you wer talking to me but whatever i guess not back to topic

sniperscout
10-07-2008, 09:52 PM
^you didnt buy that vafc did you?

i know jason told you to call me so i could explain why they dont work for us

sniperscout
10-07-2008, 10:10 PM
here is a good read that has a lot of info

http://www.civicforums.com/forums/79-forced-induction-swaps/291863-those-ex-head-crower-stage-2-a.html

EPthree04
10-07-2008, 10:58 PM
^you didnt buy that vafc did you?

i know jason told you to call me so i could explain why they dont work for us

yeah. he thought i was hating but i was just trying to give him advice.

em2trackstar
10-08-2008, 09:28 AM
hey good information guys. no i wont be tuning on a vafc, ill be going kpro, jason pretty much sold me on that. and i completely agree with e on this one. modding the car the way i want it is original and something not too many people have done. and as far as just running 15's with the d17. i already ran a 16.3 with basic bolt ons, I/H/E so with internals, a good tune, kpro, and a couple of other things, i'll be in the 14's. plus ive beat those pos scion tcs before from the dig. their slow off the line, they just catch up in the top end. im not impressed.

em2trackstar
10-08-2008, 09:32 AM
and yes snipe i know the 2 and 3 cams are the same price and both require valvetrain, but i heard the stage 3 destroys your valvetrain real quick and is not for the inexperienced tuner. plus i dont think with the stage 3 it will work for a turbo application which will be the last part that goes in my car.

4dr_ed3
10-08-2008, 11:45 AM
yeah. he thought i was hating but i was just trying to give him advice.

i didnt think you were hating.you didnt know what i was doing. as of right now all im doing is swapping heads and thats it no cam nothing else i read up and now know i have to buy k-pro if im gonna do ne thing like putting a diff cam or whatever. but for now im using the vafc2 to have vtec. i didnt even spend money on buying it either i sold a steering wheel and quick release that i had for a sentra way back and used that money for the vafc2 so its not a loss for me if later i dont need it. but thanks ne ways for the info im gonna need it later on

EPthree04
10-08-2008, 12:40 PM
vafc2 will not "give" you vtec

em2trackstar
10-08-2008, 12:51 PM
thats true a vafc will not give you vtec. its only good if you plan on adjusting your vtec slightly or wanting to see your throttle, a/f mix, and knock.

sniperscout
10-08-2008, 01:35 PM
he did a non vtec to a vtec head swap...unless he gets the ex ecu and ex wiring harness he needs vafc to engage vtec

as far as stage 3 cams go with the valvetrain...get the car tuned by an experienced dyno tuner... pretty straight forward to me. I would never street tune any car.

you seem to be doing your research though. KPro is the way to go.

Jason.AZ1
10-08-2008, 03:59 PM
You can't get semi fast out of a D though.
Unless you boost it.
thats personal preference if someone is used to a 16-18sec car and
now is in the 14/15s thats a semi fast car for them.

if you are debating between stage 2 or 3 cams think about this...both require valvetrain, both are the same price. if you are concerned about idling, it wont be an issue. So with all that in mind why would you hinder yourself witha stage 2 cam?
Next question, what are you tuned on? If you say vafc your fucking stupid
I talked him into Kpro and trying to get him to go stage 3..

a d17 can be made into a race engine...its expensive and would require boost. It isnt an NA motor unless you are just looking to get slightly faster to keep up with those scion TCs lol
I smoke tc's stock fool lol
my engine on crack!


but for real isnt what is name like 400+ hp on boost with a stock d17
besides the head?

hey good information guys. no i wont be tuning on a vafc, ill be going kpro, jason pretty much sold me on that. and i completely agree with e on this one. modding the car the way i want it is original and something not too many people have done. and as far as just running 15's with the d17. i already ran a 16.3 with basic bolt ons, I/H/E so with internals, a good tune, kpro, and a couple of other things, i'll be in the 14's. plus ive beat those pos scion tcs before from the dig. their slow off the line, they just catch up in the top end. im not impressed.

yepp yepp Kpro then go to locash racing talk to joe
and have him tune your car, dont street tune your car,
run your car here you might be faster then 16.3
I played with my friend who has a sentra spec-v with bolts ons
every time he ran his car he got 15.5
we are dead even from roll and from a dig I get him until he hits 3rd and he got me by less then a fender.

so yes our car's can become fast but it's all about the $$$$

also one of the reason why people say go boost/K is it's cheapier hp for the money. a k24/k20 swap into a em2 with kpro should be
around around 5k me and phill(sniper) have talked about over a 100 times...
hell Im doing a a3 on boost so ill have a cheap ass swap and have boost and have somewhat good
whp/tq

you dont need 8gs you can do a very mild swap for under 5. maybe even under 4
in not saying your wrong at all cuz of all people on here you would know but since when, cuz everywhere i saw when i was looking a few months back was saying 8-12k. for that much i could just get an ep3 or rsx and be happy
i spent just under 7k on mine and i honestly spent about 1500-2000 more than i should have.
4g's
thats like almost the motor. there are so many things you have to buy and if you dont know where to get good prices your pretty much screwed. you gotta have friends who have done this b4 to help you out other wise your shit outa luck
those numbers around 10k are for the cars that are considerably harder to put K series into. You have to add a lot more parts and do more modifications. Those numbers are also including labor rates. Our cars are probably the easiest to put a k into. the only reason i spent so much extra was because I got ripped off on a lot of parts
^^ wow if thats the case, that would be for sure the better option of the 3
hell yeah i would help you! and no 4gs is not the motor. I bought my k24 for 900 shipped.
I chose to put the better head on and everything. If you just want extra power by a k24, dont swap heads or pistons, and run it like that. get a crv motor and you will be at 160hp/160tq
awesome man.
ok this little convo seriously kinda made me change my mind. is yours I think A1 or A2?
CRV motor bout the same price??
at that point you would still have a stock reliable honda motor. The numbers are a little less than boost, but we all know the headaches that go along with boost.
i have a k24a8 bottom end with k24a2 internals and a k20a2 head
crv motor(k24a1) is about the same price and i have some more aggresive cams from my accord motor(k24a8) still lyin around
i have seen entire k20a3 swaps going for around 2.5-3.5k. that includes engine, tranny, ecu, wire harness
dang, i thknk ill just save up for this instead.
BTW hows the car runnin besides the body dmg
running strong! no problems since i fixed my cooling issues
when you go to do this hit me up and i will help you figure out what all you need
thats pimp man.
Well i means its gonna probably be a little bit, but the k sounds like the way to go. As long as you cand others can help me out im freakin noob status stilll lol
now that i know what to expect i can prolly do the swap in a weekend
i know you have mentined it before but what were the main problems you had..
i dont know bout you but the electrical part is what concerns me the most
electrical is simple as hell...there almost isnt any. I am en electrician anyways. The main problem was following a not 100% accurate diy. My other problem was I used the wrong rings so i was getting blow by. My cooling issue I am still working with... sort of but it is fixed for the most part. I think my condenser might be bad so thats why i am only running hot with the ac on. When it is off i sit at 140-160 degrees. other than that i havent had an issues.
awesome, well im gonna really be lookin out for some parts then,
i guess instead or lookin for em2 i need to look for any rsx's i see :)
There is no substitute for the feel of the onset of boost. Ask Phillip, he rode in my car.
rsx, newer accords, and newer crvs as well
lol it didnt impress me to be honest...i feel more when vtec kicks in on mine
since you had that turbo you had more downtime than uptime
ok cool..man i dont know what i want, boost is awesome but seems like a huge headache,
seems as tho swap is more reliable and the same price for the most part
The head (not on the motor) had about 80k on it, but it has been completely refreshed. That would cost you $300 on ebay PLUS shipping and I'm just asking $150.
No shit, the head is worth triple that.
lol I like you
n/a on a d17 is as useless as no armed man in an asswiping contest.
160whp na d17, isnt bad considering the lack of love for the engine.
now the expense...sucks
8gs noooooo not close
YES
depending on which motor and which way I go na or fi ill be in 4-6500 range tune and running....
8-12k is more of a shop price and is fucking stupid and yes better off buying a rsx/ep3
yepp because people lie and fuck around sold wrong parts to you...
4 g is not the motor man.... depending on which K you go with 4-6k for full swap running
x289234
plus think of it this was
eg + b18 = easy
eg + K = not so
em2 + K = easy
em2 + b18 = not so
a k into a em2 is like a b into a eg
well remember I found that a3 with tranny ecu harness and axles and subframe etc... for like 2k awhile back
you just gotta search for this stuff and find the best deals....
do it, remember when you asked me whats next or something on club civic?
this is next lol
word phill knows his shit he has a folder of all k motors and info etc... he knows his shit
yepp lets do mine in a weekend once i get the parts lol



and yes snipe i know the 2 and 3 cams are the same price and both require valvetrain, but i heard the stage 3 destroys your valvetrain real quick and is not for the inexperienced tuner. plus i dont think with the stage 3 it will work for a turbo application which will be the last part that goes in my car.

why would a stage 3 mess up the valve train any more then a stage 2 it's not that more aggresive plus same price you get more power

go to locash for the tune dont street tune it

sniperscout
10-08-2008, 06:45 PM
wow! i feel like i read two threads at the same time! oh wait I did!!

em2trackstar
10-09-2008, 11:56 AM
yeah i heard real good things about joe at locash. i wasnt going to try and street tune it by the way. and the 400 hp d17 belongs to andy. d17+gt30+31psi thats fucking nuts. you guys have sold me on the stage 3 cam and also on the kpro. now its time to get the money to buy the parts. thanks everybody.

sniperscout
10-09-2008, 02:12 PM
its actually 489hp

good choice...kpro is probably the biggest HP increasing mod you can do to the d17 next to turbo

em2trackstar
10-09-2008, 02:14 PM
yeah i know that now. is there any kpro dealers around us?

sniperscout
10-09-2008, 02:30 PM
joe at locash

from what i hear he has a good price too

em2trackstar
10-09-2008, 05:54 PM
cool ill double check with them

Rufus
10-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Boost or K. N/A is a waste of your money.

I know it's hard to fathom saving for something so big, when you could be doing all of these "small" mods one at a time. However, you'll throw away money and learn a shitty lesson. Bite the bullet if you really want it and start saving for more expensive stuff. If I had to guess, however, your car will never become a "full race car" and I'm not knocking you at all. By the time you make enough money to turn it into that, you'll realize that there are better platforms out there to do it with and you'll likely be sick of that car. Mark my words brother.

em2trackstar
10-13-2008, 02:45 PM
well i will be boosted. and as far as getting tired of the car i dont think i will because theres too many things that can be done to cars to get tired of them. but i hear you out.

Rufus
10-14-2008, 08:37 AM
and as far as getting tired of the car i dont think i will because theres too many things that can be done to cars to get tired of them.

Wait another 5-6 years until all of your friends are driving an Infiniti, Lexus, etc and you're still driving a 6-7 year old Civic. Trrruuussst me.


But ont he mod topic, just slowly build for your big build. Don't waste $ on N/A stuff, etc. The older these cars get, the easier it is to find this shit for it, and the cheaper parts get. Don't throw away more money than you're already about to anyway.

Definitely get KPro though...

I have Flex-a-lite fans that fit perfectly in your car and will keep it cool under boost. $75 and trade me for your stock fans.

josh
10-14-2008, 11:40 AM
hit up locash racing for kpro then buy a k swap, fuck boost on a d series its a waste of money to make 200 hp.. with a nice k setup you'll make 200 n/a and a good patform to go off of

AZ_CIVIC
10-14-2008, 11:48 AM
the only problem with just saving for the turbo now is that i can find the one i want plus thats the last thing that will be going in my car. i dont want to boost it without the internals. its gonna be a full race car not a street car anymore so it will take time. big turbo is the way im going. most of the parts will be coming from dezod motorsports so one thing at a time.

So if it is going to be a full race car why would you waste your money on cams, valve springs, and retainers first. I would start off by building the block for boost if thats were your going, down the road when you get more money you can do the head and cams etc, then find the turbo kit your looking for.

Jason.AZ1
10-14-2008, 11:52 AM
So if it is going to be a full race car why would you waste your money on cams, valve springs, and retainers first. I would start off by building the block for boost if thats were your going, down the road when you get more money you can do the head and cams etc, then find the turbo kit your looking for.

our blocks can handle alot of hp without being sleeved, why waste the money

AZ_CIVIC
10-14-2008, 12:01 PM
our blocks can handle alot of hp without being sleeved, why waste the money

Number one if this guy is building a race car like he say's, which means he wants big horsepower you need to sleeve the block in order to run big HP. I make big HP because I did things right when I built my motor I would guess that Jake, AFI, and Full Race probably run sleeved built blocks in their race cars too. If you are doing a build right, you will build everything.

Jason.AZ1
10-14-2008, 12:04 PM
Number one if this guy is building a race car like he say's, which means he wants big horsepower you need to sleeve the block in order to run big HP. I make big HP because I did things right when I built my motor I would guess that Jake, AFI, and Full Race probably run sleeved built blocks in their race cars too. If you are doing a build right, you will build everything.

he isnt shooting for a 9 sec car I think and if he is he better go K
If I remeber right theres a d17 with 489hp with a stock block....

but yes I agree with you when you do a build do everything right the first time.

AZ_CIVIC
10-14-2008, 12:09 PM
he isnt shooting for a 9 sec car I think and if he is he better go K
If I remeber right theres a d17 with 489hp with a stock block....

but yes I agree with you when you do a build do everything right the first time.

I am not sure what his HP goals are but he posted that this will not be a daily driver anymore but a full race car. 489hp is enought to get you low 11's and even in the high 10's.

The God Damn Batman
10-14-2008, 12:21 PM
489 HP @ 31 PSI.. nice build but 31 psi??...I wouldnt put trust in that...
http://www.civicforums.com/forums/46-honda-civic-members-rides/309065-d17-gt30-31-psi.html

AZ_CIVIC
10-14-2008, 12:29 PM
489 HP @ 31 PSI.. nice build but 31 psi??...I wouldnt put trust in that...
http://www.civicforums.com/forums/46-honda-civic-members-rides/309065-d17-gt30-31-psi.html

The dyno sheet says it was 31.06 PSI but the real question is, if that block is stock which would be amazing, how long would it last running it a 31 psi on stock sleeves, or stock bottom end, whatever they are claiming.

Jason.AZ1
10-14-2008, 12:48 PM
The dyno sheet says it was 31.06 PSI but the real question is, if that block is stock which would be amazing, how long would it last running it a 31 psi on stock sleeves, or stock bottom end, whatever they are claiming.

yes stock block and I think he's been running for awhile...

Jason.AZ1
10-14-2008, 12:54 PM
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/andyman97/?action=view&current=SMOV0006.flv

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/andyman97/IMG_0806.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y255/andyman97/APPmeet010.jpg

sniperscout
10-14-2008, 12:56 PM
its reliable and his daily driver...he recently upgraded his rods and pistons but he is unsleeved

AZ_CIVIC
10-14-2008, 01:04 PM
yes stock block and I think he's been running for awhile...

He's probably still around because he doesn't drive this car at 30 psi, he most likely dynoed it to the max on a race tune, but runs it at a safer psi like 18-22 or less depending on what gas he uses and if he also has a pump gas tune than he is most likely at 15 psi and running 300 hp.

Rufus
10-14-2008, 01:14 PM
He's probably still around because he doesn't drive this car at 30 psi, he most likely dynoed it to the max on a race tune, but runs it at a safer psi like 18-22 or less depending on what gas he uses and if he also has a pump gas tune than he is most likely at 15 psi and running 300 hp.

You honestly think the OP will ever put 30lbs to a d17?

AZ_CIVIC
10-14-2008, 01:17 PM
You honestly think the OP will ever put 30lbs to a d17?

No, probably not.

Rufus
10-14-2008, 01:20 PM
Exactly

josh
10-14-2008, 09:58 PM
i dont know much about d series motors but manny was running 20 something psi on a stock K series block

em2trackstar
10-15-2008, 07:47 PM
hey everyone great info and good opinions but im sticking with the d17. it will be fully built and i dont really care if a k will put out more power and yadi yadi. im doing this for fun and to prove that the car is only as fast as the one who builds it. i believe in doint things the right way the first time. i was just getting info on what you guys thought of the cam set up. it might not be a 9 sec car but it will still smash people at the track once its built. i have faith. and as for g35's and lexus, i dont like those cars so i wouldnt care if my friends got them. its all about my dream of building this car. but thanks everyone for you opinions and suggestions.

em2trackstar
10-15-2008, 07:49 PM
also as for the stock fans zohan ill trade you but i need to wit till the 1st is that cool?

Rufus
10-15-2008, 08:05 PM
also as for the stock fans zohan ill trade you but i need to wit till the 1st is that cool?

Sure, whenever...

4dr_ed3
10-15-2008, 09:43 PM
hey everyone great info and good opinions but im sticking with the d17. it will be fully built and i dont really care if a k will put out more power and yadi yadi. im doing this for fun and to prove that the car is only as fast as the one who builds it. i believe in doint things the right way the first time. i was just getting info on what you guys thought of the cam set up. it might not be a 9 sec car but it will still smash people at the track once its built. i have faith. and as for g35's and lexus, i dont like those cars so i wouldnt care if my friends got them. its all about my dream of building this car. but thanks everyone for you opinions and suggestions.

agreed when you buy a car its cuz you wanna mod it the way you want not the way others think its better. if you wer to build your car like everyone else says it really wouldnt be your own. building and tuning your own car really makes it all worth it in the end when you got exactly what you wanted. im thinking of building up the block i got from rufus N/A but we will see what happens