What Acura is best for tracking? Type-S or Type-R

[RarriMarquis]

What car handles better? Type-S or Type-R? What are the pros and cons of each chassis? I'm shopping for a track car. I'm not worried about power just the handling.

[dantana]

The TypeR is supperior in every category, your comparing apples to oranges.

if your looking for a trackcar only, i recomend picking up a used one that someone has already built, you can save a lot of time and money that way.

[berny2435]

You'll find a completely built DC2, EG/EJ or EK track car for cheaper than you'll get a USDM ITR or low mileage RSX-S. I sold my K20 EG civic for about 9500 with complete suspension. Just needed a cage, seats and belts. It desimated a well put together ITR with stock motor driven by a vetran on stickier tires.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

x2

double wishbone > MacPherson

It's not a Type-R but this would have been sweeeeet:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2001-Acura-Integra-GS-R-Road-Race-SCCA-NASA_W0QQitemZ160297839905QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRace_ Cars_Not_Street_Legal_?hash=item160297839905&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65:3|39:1|240:1318

[mc_rhett_meister]

It aint a tyte caR unless its a type R imo ;)

[BLACK-R]

type r all the way

[BlueTeg]

if your looking for a trackcar only, i recomend picking up a used one that someone has already built, you can save a lot of time and money that way.





double wishbone > MacPherson



:thumbup:

[Tage]

I'd be willing to bet a base model Integra handles better than an RSX-S. The RSX platform simply sucks donky balls. They *feel* great on the street and seem like they would produce impressive track numbers but they don't. Case in point the KSport RSX (actually a JDM RHD ITR) with a Full Race turbo kit producing well over 400WHP and has ALL the goodies (ex: Carbon Fiber doors!). They run Hoosier tires and have a local hotshoe driving the car and it has NEVER beat me. Go figure?

Another reason to not go with an RSX, is because they're more expensive. Buying a cheaper car will allow you to do more track events and/or modify it more.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Case in point the KSport RSX (actually a JDM RHD ITR) with a Full Race turbo kit producing well over 400WHP and has ALL the goodies (ex: Carbon Fiber doors!). They run Hoosier tires and have a local hotshoe driving the car and it has NEVER beat me. Go figure?

http://www.costumeshop.us.com/images_products/3305_small.jpg

It's your horn and I think you just tooted it.

[yosshaa]

if your looking for a trackcar only, i recomend picking up a used one that someone has already built, you can save a lot of time and money that way.

:clapper: YES.
R is going to handle better but probably be more expensive and harder to find.

[Tage]

http://www.costumeshop.us.com/images_products/3305_small.jpg

It's your horn and I think you just tooted it.

Haha! Yes I did. I guess the point I should have made was that IMO, Brady and I have very similar driving ability so the lap times comes down to the car we're driving.

EG = DC
EG / DC > DC5

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Haha! Yes I did. I guess the point I should have made was that IMO, Brady and I have very similar driving ability so the lap times comes down to the car we're driving.

EG = DC
EG / DC > DC5

Haha, just giving you shit. :tongue:

Yes, very true that between you and Brady it pretty much comes down to the car.

[Vtecracer]

If the OP wants a track car...then go post up in the classifieds he might just find one there for sale... but i can say i would stick with an integra

E

[EG6-DC2]

What are you done with it already?

[BlueTeg]

Wow, that was short lived. You trying to sell it now?

Vouch for nice car to get started in HPDE.

[RarriMarquis]

thanks for the replies. i guess i will be shopping for a dc or eg. cheaper is always better. I would have thought the rsx balance would be better. I knew you would lose some with the MacPherson strut, but with after market suspension i thought it might have come alive. I will probably pick up a shell. thanks for the offers.

[Acurazor]

Whatever fkrs! I love my DC5 :( . haha jk. My DC2 handled better definetly, that thing felt like a go-kart.

[berny2435]

It's pretty interesting what the new CTR is doing on the track over in Japan. Basically out of the box it is better than the s2000CR. We'll C what people actually make of these Mac strut a quirky rear end Civics soon.

I bought my Si b/c I wanted a brand new car. I could have bought an 00 ITR but I think you buy problems when you get a car like that around here.. .

If I was buying an extra track car.. . CRX, EG or DC all the way. If I fit into a s2000 with cage and seat, I'd be buying one of those that are going for around 12-13Gs right now.. .

[Vtecracer]

Wow, that was short lived. You trying to sell it now?

Vouch for nice car to get started in HPDE.
i won'tneed it where i am going... so i think the OP should look around for a deal.... he wants a shell... and this is what i started with... along with a shell comes a lot of expenses just to make it driveable and pass smog

[ILIKETODRIVE]

I can vouch for this car and the owner all day long.

:thumbup:

[Tage]

It's pretty interesting what the new CTR is doing on the track over in Japan. Basically out of the box it is better than the s2000CR.

No surprise here. It takes almost nothing to make a car faster than a stock S2000. A B16 EG on race tires (even crappy Toyos) will destroy a stock S2000. EG/DC FTW!

[JoshDC2]

s2k = mas sexier than any civic or integra imo

[berny2435]

No surprise here. It takes almost nothing to make a car faster than a stock S2000. A B16 EG on race tires (even crappy Toyos) will destroy a stock S2000. EG/DC FTW!

!

I was comparing stock to stock in pure track #s.. . The s2000 is miles above of an UDSM EG or DC in development and design. It's actually pretty hard for me to beleive that when comparing the platforms, rwd vs fwd, about same weight and torque, FWD with less hp, the fwd car wins.. .

Tage, I'm pretty sure with your skill behind the wheel, a s2000 with just r comps is going to lap faster than say a 2600lb with driver, slightly lightened DC2 gsr with suspension and stock engine. It's hard to bench race a senario but I have a very hard time believing you'd be slower in the s2000.

[Vtecracer]

i would be willing to bet that my"trackable dc2" is way faster than jeremy's s2000 with Tage at the wheel. I on the other hand if were driving would have to say the s2k would be better IMO

[berny2435]

i would be willing to bet that my"trackable dc2" is way faster than jeremy's s2000 with Tage at the wheel. I on the other hand if were driving would have to say the s2k would be better IMO

did you just say you are a better driver than TAGE!?!? ooooo prove it! lol

[Vtecracer]

no ,no, no i was saying with TAGE at the wheel of both cars i think the dc2 would be faster. If i were driving both cars i would have to lean towards the s2k. I think Tage can do a lot more with FWD than RWD and i would only do better against myself because the s2k is faster. I don't think i push my car hard enough or know it or my driving well enough to count on just my driving to get me around that course faster but who knows... i have never driven the RWD car on a track. Probably would end up being the integra faster with any good driver behind the wheel.... you just don't see many s2k's really kicking it at the track or in race group....now i would change my mind if it were a fully prepped s2k for the track and oh boy do i want one of those SO BAD!!!

[BlueTeg]

i won'tneed it where i am going...

Ok Doc Brown, where are you going?

[Vtecracer]

back to topic.... gabe you have a pm

and the more that i think about it....i would have to say because i love the s2k so much that it just might be better than a track integra... put some meaty tires on it and a little aero and good suspension i would say the s2k would really kick some ass.. Brady's car comes to mind here.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Ok Doc Brown, where are you going?

LOL

http://dutch.phys.strath.ac.uk/CommPhys2007exam/Frances-Johnston/Images/DocBrownB_6_14_06.jpg

[EG6-DC2]

All I have to say....

ITR's are a big pile of crap! Never buy one.....never never buy one! Worthless!!!:d3:

[Vtecracer]

All I have to say....

ITR's are a big pile of crap! Never buy one.....never never buy one! Worthless!!!:d3:

From what i hear the ITR is one of the most well balanced Honda's ever made and is a worthy track car in EVERY aspect. Not too many people are very fortunate to have one and they are just plain sik in every form even stock. I would love to have one... that's maybe why mine looks like one but is just not up to par with such a mean machine.

[dantana]

From what i hear the ITR is one of the most well balanced Honda's ever made and is a worthy track car in EVERY aspect. Not too many people are very fortunate to have one and they are just plain sik in every form even stock. I would love to have one... that's maybe why mine looks like one but is just not up to par with such a mean machine.

really is a good car, but ill take a tricked out eg anyday. i sold my R because it wasnt worth wadding up. built 2 egs for what i sold that car for!:bananaman:

[EG6-DC2]

From what i hear the ITR is one of the most well balanced Honda's ever made and is a worthy track car in EVERY aspect. Not too many people are very fortunate to have one and they are just plain sik in every form even stock. I would love to have one... that's maybe why mine looks like one but is just not up to par with such a mean machine.


It's all lies....I would never own one.....they are pieces of shit!!!

[Vtecracer]

It's all lies....I would never own one.....they are pieces of shit!!!

Sorry to burst your bubble sir.... you DO OWN one and from what i hear you want a 2 door instead of the 4? hmmm hmmm

[berny2435]

lol, VTECRACER, I was just kidding, I knew what you were trying to say.. .

Money willing,

an ITR shell over a EG shell for sure... . Why, I like the style better haha!

S2000 shell vs ITR shell.. . I can't fit into the S2000 with cage and seat so I'd say ITR

Brand new CTR shell vs ITR shell .. . well.. . I'd have to say I'd only go this route if you are running in a race series that mandates certain years of models to be of certain age. IE Speed World Challenge and so on.. .

ITR vs RSX-S same issue as above ^^^


EG with no sunroof FTW!

[EG6-DC2]

Sorry to burst your bubble sir.... you DO OWN one and from what i hear you want a 2 door instead of the 4? hmmm hmmm


I have already owned a 2dr ITR and the 4dr ITR is going up for sale!

I am going to build my EG!

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Nolan likes it in the pooper because Rhett likes it in the pooper and he owns an ITR as well.

[BlueTeg]

speaking of Rhett.....where has he been?

[riceboy88]

speaking of Rhett.....where has he been?

being rhett somewhere. hes suppose to run this sunday for DE2

[Tage]

I was comparing stock to stock in pure track #s.. . The s2000 is miles above of an UDSM EG or DC in development and design. It's actually pretty hard for me to beleive that when comparing the platforms, rwd vs fwd, about same weight and torque, FWD with less hp, the fwd car wins.. .

Tage, I'm pretty sure with your skill behind the wheel, a s2000 with just r comps is going to lap faster than say a 2600lb with driver, slightly lightened DC2 gsr with suspension and stock engine. It's hard to bench race a senario but I have a very hard time believing you'd be slower in the s2000.

With enough money like the all CF Brian Crower sponsored turbo'd S2000, you can make them quick but most are not. I don't consider myself any faster than Brady D., Brian Peters or any other hot shoe but the fact is Brady had an S2000 with coilover, A6 Hoosiers and a few other things and didn't run any impressive times at any of the local tracks (about the same as Gabe's EG with an ITR swap and lesser tires at PIR). Even Brady was pissed that the car was a lot slower than it should have been on paper. I think he only owned that car for 2 or 3 track days before selling it and bought an ITR and likes it better.

I'd stop comparing tests in Japan (or Iowa) or in theory and start going to your local tracks to see "reality". Oh, another important point is that the S2000 is a harder car to drive fast vs a FWD car. While a pro driver may be able to beat most EG/DC's in a similar S2K, the reality is none of us are pro drivers, so the FWD car will be a lot easier to drive at the limit more often resulting in a faster overall track car.

P.S. I'm not sure I'd consider a Mugen Si "stock". It might come that way from the factory but if you're spending $30K on a Civic, I think you're nuts.

[topramn]

no ,no, no i was saying with TAGE at the wheel of both cars i think the dc2 would be faster. If i were driving both cars i would have to lean towards the s2k. I think Tage can do a lot more with FWD than RWD and i would only do better against myself because the s2k is faster. I don't think i push my car hard enough or know it or my driving well enough to count on just my driving to get me around that course faster but who knows... i have never driven the RWD car on a track. Probably would end up being the integra faster with any good driver behind the wheel.... you just don't see many s2k's really kicking it at the track or in race group....now i would change my mind if it were a fully prepped s2k for the track and oh boy do i want one of those SO BAD!!!


you werent around when we had like 5 s2k's in de3.. a few of them were even from the LBR camp.. they just graduated to actual track cars instead of their daily drivers..

[dantana]

you werent around when we had like 5 s2k's in de3.. a few of them were even from the LBR camp.. they just graduated to actual track cars instead of their daily drivers..


:bananaman:zactly:bananaman:

[berny2435]

I'd stop comparing tests in Japan (or Iowa) or in theory and start going to your local tracks to see "reality". Oh, another important point is that the S2000 is a harder car to drive fast vs a FWD car. While a pro driver may be able to beat most EG/DC's in a similar S2K, the reality is none of us are pro drivers, so the FWD car will be a lot easier to drive at the limit more often resulting in a faster overall track car.

P.S. I'm not sure I'd consider a Mugen Si "stock". It might come that way from the factory but if you're spending $30K on a Civic, I think you're nuts.

R u trying to say that comparing what I've seen in the Midwest is not credible b/c it doesn't happen here in Arizona?

I know you've been to the local SCCA AutoX and seen whomever driving a silver s2000 put down some crazy times compared to the competition.

[BlueTeg]

Comparing AutoX to road course racing is like comparing apples to oranges.

....just like comparing a mildy modified Honda roadster with a high output from the factory to a purpose built double wishbone suspension FF compact platform with an engine swap.
....just like comparing 2 cars that were tested against each other in Japan by who knows who, who know what M.O.
Any "test" you see on the internet pitting 2 cars against each other should taken with a grain of salt IMO, regardless of where the 'test' took place. On any given day a different driver can hop in the same cars and get different results. On any given day the same driver can take the same 2 cars to a different track and get different results.

EG or DC chassis would be the best route for the OP due to superior suspension design, availability of aftermarket parts, weight, and overall cost.
/END THREAD

[berny2435]

I only first stated the s2000 b/c the new mac strut Type R civics aren't slow.. . A stupid comparison yeah, diff platforms but I was merely trying to show that the Mac strut cars are still viable platforms. But you guys clearly have no love for the s2000 so I guess no dice with that comparo.

and thanks again for assuming I'm some retard. I stated that a local s2000 was fast at autoX b/c it's the only example I could come up with (that I know Tage participates in) for a local event since locality seems to be the only thing you AZht people consider credible.

For now on I guess I wont bring up comparisons unless I C the cars at the track.. . Maybe I'll C you guys this weekend. Good luck TT peeps.

[dantana]

bring your helmet and ask for ride alongs although i wont be there :(
loooseboy camp will be represented with MIKE HONDA frm socal substituting for me with one of his Mugen Rs!

[BlueTeg]

the Mac strut cars are still viable platforms.

and thanks again for assuming I'm some retard. I stated that a local s2000 was fast at autoX b/c it's the only example I could come up with (that I know Tage participates in) for a local event since locality seems to be the only thing you AZht people consider credible.


We never said the macstrut hondas were not viable platforms. We just said the double wishbone hondas were better.

Where did we assume that you were a retard? I stated that comparing car A to car B was not an accurate way to see which car is "better" since there way too many variables in these tests.

Your autoX example was a poor one since performance on a autocross course is often times not a great indicator if a car will perform well on track due to the lower speeds (doesn't showcase braking ability, doesn't showcase the car's ability to accelerate past 60mph and/or past 2nd gear) and tighter/shorter courses. The OP asked about a great track car, not a car he can drive competively in Solo. I would take an S2000 for Solo any day of the week over my EG.

[Koopa Troopa]

I'd rather just build the crap out of an EG Civic CX.

What's the point in forking out all the cash for a Type R when you're just going to replace everything that makes the Type R a Type R anyways?

[95GSR]

by type-r you guys mean with suspension right? i mean isnt every DC body the same? i know they are all the same in length and width. just different suspension. correct me if im wrong. but yeah, DC's all day.

[Tage]

95GSR: ITR chassis is superior to a regular DC2 because it has thicker steel in some areas making it a stiffer chassis. That is comparing stock to stock though. After you cage any car the chassis stiffness delta is fairly insignificant.

I love the S2000 and I hope to own one someday, I just don't think it's a very fast (track) car.

I like the Mugen Si, I just think it's overpriced and not as great at the adds make it out to be.

Contrary to popular believe, my preference is RWD but I enjoy the underdog aspect of FWD. Someday I'll go to the dark side and just get a Vette and destroy all my Civic lap times.

I'm not discrediting Iowa. I just can't imagine there being a large enough sampling of cars and drivers to get an accurate picture of which cars (vs driver) are the better performers. I also seem to recall you'd done a handful of HPDE events in some K20 swapped EG. I think we know you're not a rookie, but (to me) you come across as some guy who's been doing this for years and I guess it just rubs some of us the wrong way. As I'm sure you know, there are lots of people who find all sorts of performance tests and use those results to try to kick all sorts of "internet knowledge" yet have no (or limited) 1st hand experience with the cars in question or how the tests were conducted.

Yeah I know all about the S2000's autox performance yada yada yada. And yes I still do "participate" in the Solo events as well.

FYI - I served on the AZ Region SCCA steering committee in various different positions as well as Director before I "retired" from the Solo program as an "official" in 2006 (to free up time to do more Time Attack stuff).

[berny2435]

The midwest is up and coming with numbers. It seems like there is a lot of TT action here in AZ. Midwest has more actual Door to door racing it seems. The cross section of cars is limited sometimes as you wont see many of the baller cars or tough platforms like the s2000 out there.

I still consider myself self a rookie persay as I have no "race license" and even then, you're still a rookie at that level. I have been in the HPDE seen for the past 3 years but I'd like to think I pick up things quick, especially when it comes to cars. I'm a very technical guy and get too caught up in some on these conversations. I've been in the import tuner seen since 00 though doing just about everything to cars. Custom Turbo kits, tuning, swaps and bolt ons. I try to back my chat up with real world examples as I think bench racing is pretty stupid. But for sake of conversation, and to round out my ideas, I'll still spue out some internet knowledge which I guess can dig me a hole sometimes. It's all good, no hard feelings but some of comments I get here have been interesting to say the least.. . LAter

[yosshaa]

What car handles better? Type-S or Type-R? What are the pros and cons of each chassis? I'm shopping for a track car. I'm not worried about power just the handling.


man this jus keeps getting better and better.
this was between the type-s (rsx im guessing) vs. the integra type r

where did this eg vs s2000 stuff come from?

:crazy:

[Acurazor]

man this jus keeps getting better and better.
this was between the type-s (rsx im guessing) vs. the integra type r

where did this eg vs s2000 stuff come from?

:crazy:

haha best post yet.