suspention tuning

[94gay-lude]

so.. my setup is just some k sports with skunk 2 camber kit and 205 50 15s
i guess im looking for ideal camber for front and rear. the setup is on my ef wagon and when im taking 90 degree corners i feel it buckling/sliding. almost skips a little. i drive with the coilovers at their hardest setting and i have the perches set to just untill the springs have no play.
any info would help.
also, i have built this car for auto x and so far i have yet to try it cause i keep running into bs little problems. but once its ready... how do i..idk get into things like track and auto x? idk where to go or who to talk to.

[*inFamous*]

Courtesy of Pettit Racing

HANDLING ADJUSTMENTS:

Adjustment : To Increase Under Steer / To Increase Over Steer
Front Tire Pressure: Decrease / Increase
Rear Tire Pressure: Increase / Decrease
Front Wheel Camber: More Positive / More Negative
Rear Wheel Camber: More Negative / More Positive
Front Springs: Stiffer / Softer
Rear Springs: Softer / Stiffer
Front Sway Bar: Larger (Stiffer) / Smaller
Rear Sway Bar: Smaller (Softer) / Larger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whenever making adjustments or changes in chassis setup make only one change at a time and be sure the change makes an improvement. This way you can see the effect of each change on the car. It is also a good idea to record these changes.

[94gay-lude]

i have done alot of trial and error with it already, i guess i was just wondering if anyone know where my camber should be since alignments can get pricey, lol

[fmx_dbc]

Try adjusting your rear camber to like -1.5 or -2 degrees... That should help stabilize the rear during harder cornering.
You also need to make sure your rear TOE doesn't differ from side to side. Rear toe should be barely in the negative from perfectly straight like -1/16 or even less.
For front camber just try -0.5 to -1 degree

Hope that helps

[94gay-lude]

more camber in the rear then the front? ok ill try it
i got the rear k sport toe kit to get that shit jjjust right, lol, thanks man

[dantana]

some of us run a lot of negative camber on track but it sounds like you have a street car. ideally for a street car you have 0 camber to promote tire life, are you looking for something inbetween a track/street setup? i run -3.7 and -3.5 on my car on track. it corners very nice

[*inFamous*]

some of us run a lot of negative camber on track but it sounds like you have a street car. ideally for a street car you have 0 camber to promote tire life, are you looking for something inbetween a track/street setup? i run -3.7 and -3.5 on my car on track. it corners very nice

Camber is great for cornering but like mr. dan said, for street, may not be such a good idea.

My track/street car I have setup with -1.8 and -1.5 (F/R) to promote some tire life but give it a little more zip in the corners :)

[fmx_dbc]

^ he said he set his car up to go autocrossing so I went with that. Also, note the Section he posted it in
For the front I try not to put in too much negative camber because of traction issues (and me not having LSD). I also still drive my car on the street and it handles like it's on rails. I haven't gotten my bubble gauge out but I would assume I'm at about -1 to -1.5 in front and -2.5 to -3 in the rear.

[*inFamous*]

^ he said he was trying to go autocrossing

Hence I posted my street/track setup, as I dont know if this is a dedicated track car or a DD/Track like mine.

EDIT: Nice ninja edit btw, I noted the SECTION he posted in. I LIVE in this section lol. I did a pretty extensive tune on my suspension to allow it to not EAT tires on the street but still perform on PIR/FIR fairly efficiently.

You may want to run more aggressive camber than I if your not going to DD your car :)

[*inFamous*]

Honestly take a look at that table I posted. Use it to make basic decisions on how you want your car to respond differently. Every car will be a bit different and every driver will have preferences on how they want THEIR car to handle. So I'd recommend going out to a AutoX event, and seeing how the car performs, and then adjusting your setup accordingly. :)

As far as getting aligned over and over, i'd say get your Toe dialed in at a shop but the camber you should be able to take care of with a bubble meter or angle gauge and nice level ground :) Saves you from going back to the alignment shop a billion times.

[fmx_dbc]

You can do toe settings with the "string" technique
But that takes a little patience, some jack stands, a spool of string or something comparable, and a couple measuring tapes
Or you can just buy a cool but expensive toe/camber adjustment plate from Longacre Racing that has bubble levels for each of those settings. I've used one and they are really nice and easy...I just can't bring myself to purchase one for some reason

[*inFamous*]

You can do toe settings with the "string" technique
But that takes a little patience, some jack stands, a spool of string or something comparable, and a couple measuring tapes

Yup, also look into making your own 'wheel plates' with laser pens. You can do toe and camber pretty accurately with those :)

If you use the string method, make sure that you use a centerline relative to the suspension, not the cars body as quite frequently these aren't the same!


Tons of good advice in this thread, soak it up!

[fmx_dbc]

Ok I'm gonna have to check out this laser pen wheel plate business! Sounds like the cheapest way to go

[Tage]

As far as getting aligned over and over, i'd say get your Toe dialed in at a shop but the camber you should be able to take care of with a bubble meter or angle gauge and nice level ground :) Saves you from going back to the alignment shop a billion times.

That won't work. Everytime you change camber in the front, the toe will massively change due to the tie rods remaining stationary but your knuckles moving.

As long as the car isn't lowered too much or you have a bump steer kit you can run quite a bit of negative camber and not run into much tire wear issues. When I used to DD and autox my Integra, I ran 3 deg negative in the front (zero toe) and I would get (20-25K miles on a set of street tires). Toe kills tires, not camber.

When cars are lowered a lot people see the negative camber and assume that is what wears the inside edges. In reality, when a car is lowered a lot (even if the toe is set to zero) a tiny bit of suspension compression equals a lot of dynamic toe out, hence the reason extremely lowered cars eat tires. Super stiff springs to limit how much travel the suspension sees will help as well.

[*inFamous*]

Pretty much just take a plate and mount it parallel to your wheels surface, with two laser pens facing to the front of the car in parallel. If your gonna be at the meet tonight I may show up and I can explain it better :) Its a pretty nifty trick!

[*inFamous*]

That won't work. Everytime you change camber in the front, the toe will massively change due to the tie rods remaining stationary but your knuckles moving.

As long as the car isn't lowered too much or you have a bump steer kit you can run quite a bit of negative camber and not run into much tire wear issues. When I used to DD and autox my Integra, I ran 3 deg negative in the front (zero toe) and I would get (20-25K miles on a set of street tires). Toe kills tires, not camber.

When cars are lowered a lot people see the negative camber and assume that is what wears the inside edges. In reality, when a car is lowered a lot (even if the toe is set to zero) a tiny bit of suspension compression equals a lot of dynamic toe out, hence the reason extremely lowered cars eat tires. Super stiff springs to limit how much travel the suspension sees will help as well.

Ack I forgot, I was thinking RX7 still. 4 link and its camber not affecting its toe ftw lol.

Tage got me here, definetly have something planned to readjust your toe after camber adjustment.

[fmx_dbc]

wonderful info!

[Tage]

Pretty much just take a plate and mount it parallel to your wheels surface, with two laser pens facing to the front of the car in parallel. If your gonna be at the meet tonight I may show up and I can explain it better :) Its a pretty nifty trick!

For years my low budget toe adjustment = two pieces of flat wood on each wheel and a tape measure that measured the difference in distance of the front of the wood vs the rear of the wood.

[*inFamous*]

For years my low budget toe adjustment = two pieces of flat wood on each wheel and a tape measure that measured the difference in distance of the front of the wood vs the rear of the wood.

Why not is all i have to say! If it works it works.

I used to have a set of plates I made for my car but I haven't been out much and sold em. I need to make another set for Josh Joser n myself to bust out lol.

Tage btw, glad your the man in charge now. I need to speak with you on some previous nasa/jason issues lol.

[JoshDC2]

alignment plates????*ears perk up*

i want to zero my toe before i drive on my track tires again

[94gay-lude]

That won't work. Everytime you change camber in the front, the toe will massively change due to the tie rods remaining stationary but your knuckles moving.

As long as the car isn't lowered too much or you have a bump steer kit you can run quite a bit of negative camber and not run into much tire wear issues. When I used to DD and autox my Integra, I ran 3 deg negative in the front (zero toe) and I would get (20-25K miles on a set of street tires). Toe kills tires, not camber.

When cars are lowered a lot people see the negative camber and assume that is what wears the inside edges. In reality, when a car is lowered a lot (even if the toe is set to zero) a tiny bit of suspension compression equals a lot of dynamic toe out, hence the reason extremely lowered cars eat tires. Super stiff springs to limit how much travel the suspension sees will help as well.

yes i have learned that pretty much anything you do to your suspention affects everything else. toe, ride hight and camber. if you adjust one of them you have to adjust them all. well, toe is pretty striahgt forward. anyways this car is a daily/(want to be) track car. just havent got it right for track yet. i put dc knuckles on it and that fuckes up the front camber kit and the axles. i think dc knucles stick out farther then ef cause my axles can move back and fourth as if they are going to come out of socket. so right now i am looking for ef sedan LX front knuckles so i can keep my bigger brakes but it will work with my suspention. i had to remove my front camber kit for now since the knuckle was hitting it. so till i find those knuckles i cant do much. but this is all good intfo and i thank you.

but yes my car is a daily for now. once i get my crx finished im going to make the wago strictly track these tires get really bad gas milage too, lol.

[ILIKETODRIVE]

Like Tage said:

changing camber changes toe, changing toe does not change camber.

:wave:

[Kinetic]

if the car is bucking/ sliding...its quite possible that its too low and not enough suspension travel

[94gay-lude]

if the car is bucking/ sliding...its quite possible that its too low and not enough suspension travel

thats where it gets tricky, since this car has a total of nine windows and a high roof im having trouble finding that sweet spot where it has jjjust enough give to it.

[YewllowDA]

camber -> caster -> toe

[94gay-lude]

camber -> caster -> toe

ok, got it now. lol

[fmx_dbc]

Why not track the CRX? Hehe
Hope you get it dialed in man. Those different knuckles definitely change your front end geometry...I would run the stock knuckles for your vehicle and upgrade your brake pads and brake fluid for starters. The pads will make a big improvement in your stopping power and the fluid just helps with brake fade. Just my opinion however.

[94gay-lude]

Why not track the CRX? Hehe
Hope you get it dialed in man. Those different knuckles definitely change your front end geometry...I would run the stock knuckles for your vehicle and upgrade your brake pads and brake fluid for starters. The pads will make a big improvement in your stopping power and the fluid just helps with brake fade. Just my opinion however.

i have as of right now, dc knuckles, steel braided lines all around, oem fluid flush, and ceramic pads.

but tomorow im putting my oem knuckles back on (wich also have new pads) untill i find those lx knuckles. then i can put my skunk 2 camber kit back on and re align. then im done, till i can find the lx brake booster and knuckles.

p.s. crx tracking has been done, id rather track a wagovan, lol. :clapper: