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Old 03-25-2015, 02:32 PM   #1
Broskiballa
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Ek Chassis/ Braking (DX hatch)

Random chit-chat thread..

I have a 97 stock civic dx hatchback. 206k miles, it's a great little car. No rust. All the suspension components have never been touched. No accidents. 100% mechanically stock. Only mod if it's even considered is brand new 15inch RPF1's wrapped w/ BFG A/S super sport 205-50-r15s.

I just performed a brake flush + added some HPS pads in the front. Holy titties, I am surprised how well this car stops. I was always under the impression that the base models stopped like poop with their 9.5" rotors in the front and disks in the rear. (Compared to an EX which has the 10.3" in the front and disks in the back) Not a huge difference, but I haven't focused much on braking components with my previous hondas. Very pleased with this hatch thus far. Tires helped a HUGE amount.

I am slowly taking my time with restoring and or replacing chassis, braking, and suspension components. Any suggestions I should look into this time around? My last b18cr civic ex was a fucking blast to drive. I am very new to owning a hatchback (I've only had this for about 11 months or so)


basic maintenance is still under way.
- timing belt, water pump, tensionor, thermostat
- rear RTAs
- ????


Cheers.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:19 PM   #2
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B17 swap as always


I've been looking into TruHart suspension they use hardrace bushings and is pretty reasonable on price.
Been piecing stuff together lately
http://www.truhartusa.com/mobile/default.aspx
http://www.hardrace.com

jhpusa had a decent deal on wilwoods I bought the other day

http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewP...3&idcategory=0
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:12 PM   #3
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96-00 ex front spindles and 99-00 civic si rear disc or 94-01 integra rear disc

and you will be even more amazed at how well it stops
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:36 AM   #4
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225/45/15 high performance summer tires will be your best bang for the buck to shorten your brake distances....and handling
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTeg View Post
225/45/15 high performance summer tires will be your best bang for the buck to shorten your brake distances....and handling
Thanks for the info Blueteg! I think that's a little bit of an over kill for daily driving. But something to take into consideration if I need a step up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cbaracing View Post
96-00 ex front spindles and 99-00 civic si rear disc or 94-01 integra rear disc

and you will be even more amazed at how well it stops
I imagine that! I have researched to hell and back with brake swapping. All the work leaves a sour taste in my mouth. But this is something im looking to do eventually. I believe a prop 40/40 valve will be needed as well with this swap.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason.AZ1 View Post
B17 swap as always


I've been looking into TruHart suspension they use hardrace bushings and is pretty reasonable on price.
Been piecing stuff together lately
http://www.truhartusa.com/mobile/default.aspx
http://www.hardrace.com

jhpusa had a decent deal on wilwoods I bought the other day

http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewP...3&idcategory=0

Jason! Thank you for the input as well sir! I have been going around my chassis notating old bushings that look to be nearing their replacement lifetime. Are hardrace bushings as reliable and long lasting as energy suspension?
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:46 PM   #6
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You're in luck because all EJ hatchbacks already have the 40:40 prop valve, no need to swap it out.
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Old 03-30-2015, 05:59 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Chuck Chainz View Post
You're in luck because all EJ hatchbacks already have the 40:40 prop valve, no need to swap it out.
Chuck, I did not know that sir. Thank you very much for clarifying. I was mis-informed with research. However, maybe that makes sense to me. The 9.5" front rotors and rear drum combo with 40/40 prop valve would be just the right split of fluid xfer to each of their respective braking components. If I were to swap one or the other (drums to disks, or upgrade the fronts without rears being upgraded), the distribution of fluid would be off causing either the rears to lock or the front to take too much of the work load.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broskiballa View Post
Thanks for the info Blueteg! I think that's a little bit of an over kill for daily driving. But something to take into consideration if I need a step up.

Are hardrace bushings as reliable and long lasting as energy suspension?
Keep in mind that once you have the ability the lock up your front tires, you don't need any more brake torque. Your limiting factor after that will be to increase the friction between the tires and tarmac. Go out to an open road somewhere where there are no other cars. Accelerate up to 45-50 mph and nail the brakes as hard as you can. If you can lock the tires up with your existing setup, upgrading to the bigger discs / calipers / pads / etc. won't help you stop any faster (but will prolong brake fade if you're going be doing repeated hard stops like you would in a road racing environment). Just something to keep in mind if the reason for you're spending the money is improving your braking distance.


Depending on the bushing application, the Energy Suspension stuff can be a huge PITA to install. For the most part I prefer Hard Race over ES. What bushings have you checked? What bushings do you think need to be replaced?
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Old 03-31-2015, 04:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTeg View Post
Keep in mind that once you have the ability the lock up your front tires, you don't need any more brake torque. Your limiting factor after that will be to increase the friction between the tires and tarmac. Go out to an open road somewhere where there are no other cars. Accelerate up to 45-50 mph and nail the brakes as hard as you can. If you can lock the tires up with your existing setup, upgrading to the bigger discs / calipers / pads / etc. won't help you stop any faster (but will prolong brake fade if you're going be doing repeated hard stops like you would in a road racing environment). Just something to keep in mind if the reason for you're spending the money is improving your braking distance.


Depending on the bushing application, the Energy Suspension stuff can be a huge PITA to install. For the most part I prefer Hard Race over ES. What bushings have you checked? What bushings do you think need to be replaced?
I will take that into consideration. To be honest, I haven't "tried' to lock my brakes up purposely.. But I have definitely given them a huge stomp with no locking. (during brake in procedure) The car brakes evenly. My tires are still pretty new (only 2,500 miles on them). I will try this weekend just for curiosity sake.

As for bushings, thanks for the input! Right now, I'm looking to replace my rear trailing arm bushings, Front lower ball joints, upper control arm bushings (front).

I have the ES Front lower ball joint dust covers. I haven't ever attempted to replace them before, but how hard can it be? I have a few other bushings from a master kit I still have left over. I will get around to replacing them here and there.


RTAs - notorious quoted me just over $300 and change for RTA replacement along with some Megan racings rtas. I've heard they are similar if not the same as hardrace? By heard, I mean i've researched and found many threads stating they were working together with bushing products. However, my facts aren't straight.
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Old 03-31-2015, 04:08 PM   #10
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BTW, thanks all for the added information and help. I really appreciate the guidance.
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broskiballa View Post
Right now, I'm looking to replace my rear trailing arm bushings, Front lower ball joints, upper control arm bushings (front).
RTA: I would go with OEM (I run OEM RTA bushings in both my race cars)
Front lower ball joint: stock ball joints with stock boots
UCA bushing: Skunk2 makes a decent hardened replacement

Have you considered doing the front compliance bushings or front LCA bushings? The compliance bushings don't really deteriorate but can be upgraded with a harder rubber for less slop in the suspension. I run Hardrace for these. The ES bushings require lube and it can get pretty messy under there, I wouldn't use the ES bushings for this position again.
The front LCA bushing do deteriorate and IMO are one of the most overlooked bushings for replacement on EG/DC/EK chassis. Hardrace makes a nice replacement that comes with the harder rubber already installed in a control arm. ES bushings in this position are a biiiatch to do since you have to burn the old bushing out with a torch, the ES bushing requires lube and again gets messy over time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Broskiballa View Post
RTAs - notorious quoted me just over $300 and change for RTA replacement along with some Megan racings rtas. I've heard they are similar if not the same as hardrace? By heard, I mean i've researched and found many threads stating they were working together with bushing products. However, my facts aren't straight.
I would ask them for a quote for the OEM bushings instead.
Honda upgraded the rubber on their OEM bushings a few years ago and it's supposed to be the same formula the Mugen used when they first came out with their upgraded bushings.
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Old 04-02-2015, 02:53 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTeg View Post
RTA: I would go with OEM (I run OEM RTA bushings in both my race cars)
Front lower ball joint: stock ball joints with stock boots
UCA bushing: Skunk2 makes a decent hardened replacement

Have you considered doing the front compliance bushings or front LCA bushings? The compliance bushings don't really deteriorate but can be upgraded with a harder rubber for less slop in the suspension. I run Hardrace for these. The ES bushings require lube and it can get pretty messy under there, I wouldn't use the ES bushings for this position again.
The front LCA bushing do deteriorate and IMO are one of the most overlooked bushings for replacement on EG/DC/EK chassis. Hardrace makes a nice replacement that comes with the harder rubber already installed in a control arm. ES bushings in this position are a biiiatch to do since you have to burn the old bushing out with a torch, the ES bushing requires lube and again gets messy over time.




I would ask them for a quote for the OEM bushings instead.
Honda upgraded the rubber on their OEM bushings a few years ago and it's supposed to be the same formula the Mugen used when they first came out with their upgraded bushings.

I would much rather go OEM RTA as well. I most likely will attempt to purchase a new set and bring them for installation. I'll look into that with them.

The lower ball joints may have to wait for now along with the upper control arm bushings. However thank you for the advise sir! They are all in decent condition, I just thought those would be the next replacements because they look aged.

As for the Front LCA bushings, I haven't thought about that yet to be honest. My goal is to ensure ALL* chassis bushings are replaced as these are highly over looked when purchasing a not only used car, but a honda with high miles such as mine. I really have heard a lot of great things about Hardrace. I think you've convinced me to go that route when ready.



Btw - I tested the brakes as you suggested 45-50 then slamming on the brakes. It took me two times to really slamm on the brakes to get the tires to lock up. I have to admit, it stops pretty damn awesome with those 205-50-r15 BFG super sport tires. I think im okay temporarily there. (Until I finally get the balls to hit the autox track with all you NASA guys) (;
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