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Old 08-28-2011, 03:45 PM   #1
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h22 intake mani questions

im new to the h series world but reading a few things people are saying the skunk 2 intake mani is complete shit and you may loose power.. not what im looking for.. whats the best intake mani for a bolt on stock block h22a, i was thinking of running 3 or 3.5 intake 70mm tb 2.5 or 2.75 exhuast and long tube header noy sure if 4-2-1 or 4-1 and type s cams... if anyone has a better suggestion on what parts would work little better i would love the advise thank you

ONE last thing are the intake mani spacers worth buying?
also this is in a EG hatch idk if that makes any diffrence with parts fitting in the bay
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:43 PM   #2
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Search honda tech.
Read a bit.
Then talk to scott at collective.
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Old 08-28-2011, 06:59 PM   #3
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I got you man.

Fact is, that not all performance part's are going to give you power over stock. If your H22 is starving for air, I.E being built. Then yeah. ive seen gains over 20hp with a Skunk2 intake manifold. If not? then just leave the stock one on. Honda knew what they were doing.

As for the "Thermal" spacer. I think that's what your referring to? Some claim 3-4hp, but i would assume its superficial. Just lowering the Heat transfer through the head. Some create unwanted gaps. i would just buy an OEM intake manifold gasket and call it good.

Check this out.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1331736
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:04 PM   #4
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Dealing with the same. Mine is na.
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Old 08-28-2011, 11:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Bird Teggy View Post
Search honda tech
for Scott's threads.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Bird Teggy View Post
Read a bit
of Scotts threads.

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Originally Posted by Dead Bird Teggy View Post
Then talk to scott at collective
in person as he KNOWS an H22 hands down and the OP has Tucson listed as where he's at and so is Collective and Scott.

/ thread.
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:28 PM   #6
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A mostly stock motor is best off with a stock intake mani. The H22 is similar to the GSR intake in that it is a dual runner intake, this makes good top end power and great mid to low end TQ. The Skunk2 intakes are made for high RPM flow. Unless you have increased compression with large cams and a high revving H22 or a high boost turbo the Skunk2 wont do much if anything. It is designed for peak performance over 8000rpms, since the H22 is a lower revving motor you will loose low end TQ and again little to no HP on a stock motor.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:50 PM   #7
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Thanks for imput I would call scott but im at itb training right now so I only have my phone at night some.days so wondering what bolt on parts are good for a h I want to make about 215 it made 190 on dyno with only a wack 2inch exhaust and a 2.5inch intake so the motor is strong..i was thinking 70mm tb 3inch intake with vstack rmf headers 2.5 exhaust and a s300 and maybe some type s cams if I can get my hands on some...any suggestions im fairly new to the h scene thanks for imput
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:27 AM   #8
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I would stick with the stock intake mani and TB or see if there is another OEM TB that is slightly larger that will work on you motor. 70mm is way large IMO, only needed for high boost/high hp. You just wont see much of a gain on a mild setup like you are planning. What I would do is port match the stock TB and mani and smooth out the mani runners, the S cams are a good uprgrade, a good header and 2.5" exhaust and Hondata tune. That should be good for 200-230whp depending on the tune.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:44 AM   #9
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I would stick with the stock intake mani and TB or see if there is another OEM TB that is slightly larger that will work on you motor. 70mm is way large IMO, only needed for high boost/high hp. You just wont see much of a gain on a mild setup like you are planning. What I would do is port match the stock TB and mani and smooth out the mani runners, the S cams are a good uprgrade, a good header and 2.5" exhaust and Hondata tune. That should be good for 200-230whp depending on the tune.
Oh man... I did it wrong!!!! I shoulda listened to you!
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:56 AM   #10
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Oh man... I did it wrong!!!! I shoulda listened to you!
rofl..
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Old 09-27-2011, 10:35 AM   #11
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Intenseneal, why would you just do the work above? What testing or proof do you have that supports your claims?
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:18 AM   #12
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I prefer to use the smallest throttle body possible. It creates a venturi effect with your intake air.
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Old 09-27-2011, 06:14 PM   #13
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Intenseneal, why would you just do the work above? What testing or proof do you have that supports your claims?
Judging by what the OP plans to do a stock main and maybe a 68mm TB would best suite he needs. 70MM TB for a stock compression NA motor with cams will be a waste of money and will have minimal gains. A Skunk2 intake only makes power from 7500-10000rpms and will loose some low end TQ. If the OP was planning higher compression with larger than S cams or boosting the H22 the I would say yes got with the 70mm TB and Skunk2 intake. You always seem to bash people for giving their experience on a topic. Just cause I am newer here dose not mean I am a newb. ASE certified Master tech, Honda freak, was a tech and fabricator for Intense Motorsports/Max Rev for 2 years. I have built or been apart of building 1 or 2 high powered Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans.

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I prefer to use the smallest throttle body possible. It creates a venturi effect with your intake air.
LOL. Not syaing that only that you can go to big of a TB for application. People want to through the largest TB and intake on there motor to give it the more air but if the cams, compression and or head cant move that large amount of air you can actually loose power. The velocity of air is just as important as the volume of air. Increasing the TB and intake mani size will increase the volume but a stock motor will loose velocity, not causing as good of an air fuel mixture and thus causing power to suffer some. Every one seem to think that the magic recipe for hp is IHE, cams TB, and intake mani. It all depends on what supporting mods you have done and what you plan to do with the car. For my current setup it was best to stick with my stock B16 mani and TB, as a DD my car lives under 7k so I would have lost usable power with a larger TB and intake mani. I acculally lost o few lbs of torque becuae of the shorter runner B16 mani compaired to the LS mani. The GSR mani would have been the best choice for me but I did not want to use a GSR head. Just my 2 cents and I will leave it at that.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by intenseneal View Post
Judging by what the OP plans to do a stock main and maybe a 68mm TB would best suite he needs. 70MM TB for a stock compression NA motor with cams will be a waste of money and will have minimal gains. A Skunk2 intake only makes power from 7500-10000rpms and will loose some low end TQ. If the OP was planning higher compression with larger than S cams or boosting the H22 the I would say yes got with the 70mm TB and Skunk2 intake. You always seem to bash people for giving their experience on a topic. Just cause I am newer here dose not mean I am a newb. ASE certified Master tech, Honda freak, was a tech and fabricator for Intense Motorsports/Max Rev for 2 years. I have built or been apart of building 1 or 2 high powered Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans.
Judging by? You must have miss-read the OP's post. Where did they state that they were planning on using a stock manifold?
Here is the original post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by that one eg View Post
im new to the h series world but reading a few things people are saying the skunk 2 intake mani is complete shit and you may loose power.. not what im looking for.. whats the best intake mani for a bolt on stock block h22a, i was thinking of running 3 or 3.5 intake 70mm tb 2.5 or 2.75 exhuast and long tube header noy sure if 4-2-1 or 4-1 and type s cams... if anyone has a better suggestion on what parts would work little better i would love the advise thank you

ONE last thing are the intake mani spacers worth buying?
also this is in a EG hatch idk if that makes any diffrence with parts fitting in the bay
My comments are sarcastic for sure. I don't see any validity in where you are trying to guide him. Hell, you aren't even really answering the basis of his question.... What is the BEST intake manifold for the H22.

Let's talk about your post here...

Quote:
A mostly stock motor is best off with a stock intake mani. .
My question to you is simple. What testing or experimentation have you done that validates this comment? Rather than spouting off about how I "bash" people or listing your accolades, how about answering the question instead? With all of those accolades you have, I would be safe in saying you know more than me on this subject, so please educate me.
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Old 09-28-2011, 09:19 PM   #15
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I never said the OP was planning to run a stock intake mani, he plans to use a Skunk2 which is a great mani. However they are designed to make power above 7500rpms. You will in fact loose low end hp and tq with that mani no matter what but if you are building a high rpm motor where the motor makes its power all in the top end the gain from a Skunk2 are worth the little but lost in the mid range. Now on a mostly stock motor with the cams the OP is planning to run the stock intake is a better choice power wise. By the OP's post I git the he wants to do intake header, exhaust and type s cams for these basic mods on a street driven DD the stock mani and TB will perform the best for the power band the H22 will make. The H22 is not high revving in stock form and it makes great low end power and tq. Most street cars are driven in the lower to mid rpm range (unless you drive like an ass) so you would not want to loose anything in the low end. This is why for a street car with a relatively stock set up a 4-2-1 header is a better choice than a 4-1, 4-1 are made for high rpm flow and have poor low end. Hytec style is the best of both worlds, great low end and high end performance. Ok so that is my reasoning for a stock TB and intake mani for the OP H22 set up, not for all set ups because there are motors with large cams and high compression or high boost that could 20+ hp from upgrading to a different intake mani. The only other thing the Skunk2 intake mani is better than a stock on is it is pretty, bling factor. I have seen for myself a a stock motor loose low end from bolting on a Skunk2 intake, dyno testing while working for Intense Motorsports and also from my own dyno results on my B18. My old LS mani made 127lbft @ 4461rpms and the B16 intake once I did LS Vtec on same block lost tq 125lbft @ 5641rpms and only did 120lbft @4500rpms before Vtec tuning. So you can see how it shifted the tq curve and lowered it just from the inake mani. I know its on a different head but on the same tune before LS Vtec tune was done. I hope that helps explain my reasoning. A Skunk2 mani will make more peak power over the stock one but it will be all top ens and right at the end of the rpm range of a stock motor the 70mm TB is just overkill.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:01 AM   #16
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I have had some good laughs in this thread.

A random kid going up against the H series guru of Arizona! lol.

I love the fact that you also always go back to your stock LS for comparisson to other motors and lsvtec making what a stock H22 makes!!!


Hey bud what about a Euro R with the butterflys removed? Your thoughts?

And H series Love to breath so a 70 would be fine.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:41 AM   #17
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You loose low end tq when removing the butterflies but gain more high end and the F20 Euro R motor is a slightly different motor that the H22, very similar though. Skunk2 used to have dyno results on their web site that shows how the intake performs and there is a loss in the low end, but I just checked and they no longer have the dyno sheets on the web site. I am not a kid and I am not random, been in the industry since before swaps where common place plug and play. No one needs to listen to me or take may advise, I could care less, was just trying to help and share my experience. B series>H
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Old 09-29-2011, 11:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intenseneal View Post
I never said the OP was planning to run a stock intake mani, he plans to use a Skunk2 which is a great mani..
Quote:
Originally Posted by that one eg View Post
im new to the h series world but reading a few things people are saying the skunk 2 intake mani is complete shit and you may loose power.. not what im looking for.. whats the best intake mani for a bolt on stock block h22a...
I am calling "time out" here! You still didn't read the OP's original post did you? Go re-read it first as well as the part I boldfaced for you... then maybe you will get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by intenseneal View Post
You loose low end tq when removing the butterflies but gain more high end and the F20 Euro R motor is a slightly different motor that the H22, very similar though. Skunk2 used to have dyno results on their web site that shows how the intake performs and there is a loss in the low end, but I just checked and they no longer have the dyno sheets on the web site. I am not a kid and I am not random, been in the industry since before swaps where common place plug and play. No one needs to listen to me or take may advise, I could care less, was just trying to help and share my experience. B series>H
Some of your facts are correct, but others aren't even in the ball park. This is why I wanted to know where your knowledge base was coming from. Clearly, it is from reading, and that is great, but most of what makes a man is experience itself. The problem here is this... You have enough knowledge to guide the unknowing to demise. In other words... it is like the blind leading the blind. A few things you say sound good to those who don't know any better, but to those of us who do, you should plan to get called out from time to time. I am not bashing you, but I am calling you out because you are giving out miss-information on a subject that you are inexperienced with. I understand that you are trying to be helpfull and I can appreciate that, but giving out incorrect information does more harm than good in this "scene".

Your concern seems to focus on low end TQ. I don't disagree that in some cases a slight loss in TQ can result by not using the butterflies in these dual runner intake manifolds, but going back to the OP's original question, "what manifold is best for the H22"?, can be answered simply... The Euro R manifold works best. People have also seen very positive results from the dimensionally similar RBC manifold. However, they have also found TQ gains from about 3500 RPM and up with both of these manifolds as well. I personally found a TQ and HP gain (with tuning) by using a 70mm throttle body on many Stock H22 applications. So, I disagree with your experience. At what point do you feel the low end losses are serious enough to negate the modification that makes power everywhere else? Besides, who modifies these cars to drive them slow or in the "Bottom End RPM range", that you are so concerned about?

Clearly, you are unfamiliar with the manifold mentioned above or even what engine it comes from. We are not talking about any F20 motor. For your information, the F20 is a completely different engine than a H22, but there are similarities in function, but dimensionally... not even close. It also uses a dual runner intake manifold.

Since the OP talked about some other very smart modifications additionally, i.e. Hondata S300, suggests to me that this isn't just a bolt up and "see what I get" ordeal. Tuning is involved.

Comparing the characteristics of a H22 to a smaller engine whose cylinder head flow rates are not even close, cannot be a comparison at all.

I am not trying to insult you about your knowledge or length of time in the "scene", but you need to experience more.

Oh and to comment on your B>H mention... (yes, you baited me, so now it is my turn...)
Build me, with your own hands, a 12/1 pump gas all motor B series that makes over 300whp. If you even get close (within 30whp), then I will show you how to duplicate what I have already done with an H22. Until then, I will take your comment as an uneducated joke.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:30 PM   #19
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The f20b comes from the Accord Sir-T for reference intenseseal




I still like B's over H's.

But even with a 3,000 head, the perfect cams for your 12:1 setup, the perfect Header, IM/ITB's, and joe's best tune evar, It's probably gonna make 250ish at most, and nooooooooooooooooooo where near the tq the H will make. And it makes me sad, but the facts are the facts. There's a reason I'm going away from n/a
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Old 09-29-2011, 05:55 PM   #20
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Yeah I know what the F20b came out of, it was also in the Accord Euro R as well as the JDM Accor SiR. Funny Tim at Xact Dyno owns a NA Teg making 300whp, yes 300whp on a NA B series, well kind of, Dart B series block and Endyn head with custom cams, 13:1 compression and custom Endyn intake mani on Tim's tune. It made 220 on stocked maxed out injectors and the 300 with ID injectors. So over 250whp is possible with a B platform but it cost Tim over 10K to build the motor, this is a full race motor in a street car. This is why I also am going to boost, cheap way to make 300whp. The H is a decent motor but it has its weak points, long geared and weak trans, FMR lined cylinders that will burn oil with higher miles, a poorly balanced bottom end and a lack for aftermarket support compared to the B series. The good, 2.2L of tq, DOHC Vtec and the closed deck design of the older H22. Not trying to turn anyone off to the H, I think it is a good platform and a cool motor to see swapped into a Civic or Teg. Good luck to OP on your H build do your research for what you want out of the motor, what you plan to do with it (DD, drag, circuit or autoX). Talk to whoever you are having tune it about your goals this is normally your best source of info. For a H motor I would talk with Joe at Loecash, Tim hates the H and does not like to tune them. The one bad thing I can say about Tim is that he will try hard not to tune an H.
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Old 09-29-2011, 06:07 PM   #21
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EVERYTHING you just typed in the above post, made me LOL.
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Old 09-29-2011, 06:34 PM   #22
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Wow, I haven't seen Scott throw down in a long time...

Experience>"research", Honda tech threads, and anything else.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:26 PM   #23
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Yeah I know what the F20b came out of, it was also in the Accord Euro R as well as the JDM Accor SiR. Funny Tim at Xact Dyno owns a NA Teg making 300whp, yes 300whp on a NA B series, well kind of, Dart B series block and Endyn head with custom cams, 13:1 compression and custom Endyn intake mani on Tim's tune. It made 220 on stocked maxed out injectors and the 300 with ID injectors. So over 250whp is possible with a B platform but it cost Tim over 10K to build the motor, this is a full race motor in a street car. This is why I also am going to boost, cheap way to make 300whp. The H is a decent motor but it has its weak points, long geared and weak trans, FMR lined cylinders that will burn oil with higher miles, a poorly balanced bottom end and a lack for aftermarket support compared to the B series. The good, 2.2L of tq, DOHC Vtec and the closed deck design of the older H22. Not trying to turn anyone off to the H, I think it is a good platform and a cool motor to see swapped into a Civic or Teg. Good luck to OP on your H build do your research for what you want out of the motor, what you plan to do with it (DD, drag, circuit or autoX). Talk to whoever you are having tune it about your goals this is normally your best source of info. For a H motor I would talk with Joe at Loecash, Tim hates the H and does not like to tune them. The one bad thing I can say about Tim is that he will try hard not to tune an H.

Jesus are you dumb or just thick headed? Scott is the H guru and master in this state and he is in the top 3 on the westcoast for building them. I would love too see Tims 300whp B series dyno chart.. Scott has proven his power and his engines. And saying tim doesnt like to tune the H just shows how much better joe is of a tuner than tim will ever be. He will tune. D,B,H,K and other motors not just honda.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:31 PM   #24
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Yeah I know what the F20b came out of, it was also in the Accord Euro R as well as the JDM Accor SiR. Funny Tim at Xact Dyno owns a NA Teg making 300whp, yes 300whp on a NA B series, well kind of, Dart B series block and Endyn head with custom cams, 13:1 compression and custom Endyn intake mani on Tim's tune. It made 220 on stocked maxed out injectors and the 300 with ID injectors. So over 250whp is possible with a B platform but it cost Tim over 10K to build the motor, this is a full race motor in a street car. This is why I also am going to boost, cheap way to make 300whp. The H is a decent motor but it has its weak points, long geared and weak trans, FMR lined cylinders that will burn oil with higher miles, a poorly balanced bottom end and a lack for aftermarket support compared to the B series. The good, 2.2L of tq, DOHC Vtec and the closed deck design of the older H22. Not trying to turn anyone off to the H, I think it is a good platform and a cool motor to see swapped into a Civic or Teg. Good luck to OP on your H build do your research for what you want out of the motor, what you plan to do with it (DD, drag, circuit or autoX). Talk to whoever you are having tune it about your goals this is normally your best source of info. For a H motor I would talk with Joe at Loecash, Tim hates the H and does not like to tune them. The one bad thing I can say about Tim is that he will try hard not to tune an H.

80 whp from injectors and tuning?

Dyno please....
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Old 09-29-2011, 11:58 PM   #25
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Wow, I haven't seen Scott throw down in a long time...

Experience>"research", Honda tech threads, and anything else.
Do you remember the time I got into that fist fight with the 7 midgets in the Fiero? This is kinda like that... not really a challenge, but everyone got a good laugh.
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Old 09-30-2011, 07:17 AM   #26
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Do you remember the time I got into that fist fight with the 7 midgets in the Fiero? This is kinda like that... not really a challenge, but everyone got a good laugh.
No, I missed that!!! Heard all about it though, made me lol my pants!!
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Old 09-30-2011, 07:30 AM   #27
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Call or go up to SRD or Xact Dyno if you dont believe me that Tim has a 4 door white DC Teg with NA 300whp, I saw the motor while getting my first tune and saw the Teg running with the motor in it on my second tune a few months later. I am done in this thread it is like trying to explain something to a brick wall and I have nothing to prove to you kids, at this point I am
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:27 AM   #28
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call or go up to srd or xact dyno if you dont believe me that tim has a 4 door white dc teg with na 300whp, i saw the motor while getting my first tune and saw the teg running with the motor in it on my second tune a few months later. I am done in this thread it is like trying to explain something to a brick wall and i have nothing to prove to you kids, at this point i am
experience > noobs!
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:41 AM   #29
Bill Cosby
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experience > noobs!
Scott get out of this thread! You've never even built an h series!








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Old 09-30-2011, 09:50 AM   #30
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Scott get out of this thread! You've never even built an h series!
I think it is funny that I have been building these engines longer than intenseneal has been legally driving and he calls me a "kid"... lol
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