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Old 06-13-2010, 11:33 PM   #31
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NP, glad to help! Ive been lucky with all the stuff I have been involved with, i dont mind shaaring the info!

You are correct, in the early 90s GM made, in conjunction with lotus, a DOHC V8 (349 CI) 32 valve engine. It is an AWESOME engine. I have driven quite a few ZR1s, as well as the only car GM every put the LS5 into that was not a vette, and that was a show car camaro (I have pics)

It is not as bad as you think to work on, its just a bit different. It also had 16 fuel injectors. They make roughly 400hp @ like 6800rpm or so, and sound awesome. The motors were co designed by lotus, and assembled by Mercury Marine persons haha. They are extremely reliable as well. I think GM set a endurance record (175mph for 24 hours non stop) with this motor. Lotus also helped out with a few other things in the car. I would love to own a ZR1, I think I would rather have a 90 model than a 2009 ZR1 haha. They only made about 7000 of them.

I drove a modded (Chip, exhaust, custom headers, gears, slick) vette that was in the 11s consistantly.

Very cool motor, just dont confuse the LT5 that this motor is, with the older 70s chevelle LS5.

I found the record :





Although the ZR-1 was extremely quick (0-60 mph in 4.6 seconds, and onto 180+ mph), the huge performance of the LT5 engine was matched by its robustness. As evidence of this, a stock ZR-1 set a number of international and world records at a test track in Fort Stockton, Texas on March 1, 1990, verified by the FIA (Fťdťration Internationale de l'Automobile), including seven new international records:
  • 100 miles (160 km) at 175.600 mph (282.601 km/h)
  • 500 miles (800 km) at 175.503 mph (282.445 km/h)
  • 1,000 miles (1,600 km) at 174.428 mph (280.715 km/h)
  • 5,000 km (3,100 mi) at 175.710 mph (282.778 km/h) (World Record)[citation needed]
  • 5,000 miles (8,000 km) at 173.791 mph (279.690 km/h) (World Record)
  • 12 Hours Endurance at 175.523 mph (282.477 km/h)
  • 24 Hours Endurance at 175.885 mph (283.059 km/h) for 4,221.256 miles (6,793.453 km) (World Record)[
These are not my pics, just some off the net.

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Old 06-14-2010, 01:46 AM   #32
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Paul, we gotta talk mopar sometime. My first car was a 73 challenger
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:05 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulgt2164 View Post
I am going to have to respectfully disagree here. the LS series engines are fantastic. I would venture to say that the LS7 is just as good of an engine as the NSX engine. The LS7 may have pushrods, and only one camshaft, but technically speaking it is a very advanced engine.

The NSX chassis is more than capable of handling the extra power and torque, and since the two engines have similiar characteristics I would say that this is a fantastic concept. The weight difference would also be very small, if any.

I don't forsee the owner harking back to the muscle car days, I would be willing to bet the owner was frustrated with the lack of power, parts, and potential per dollar that the original NSX motor provided.

Why not combine a world class chassis with a world class (yes the LS7 engines are world class, look at their technology/race history) engine? Best of both worlds IMO.

I have driven quite a few Z06s, and in anger. The 405hp and the 505hp Z06s are fantastic, and the behavior, power, and sound of the LS7 engines is amazing.

If a LS7 swapped car with basic suspension mods happened across a Stock engined NSX with basic suspension mods, on the race track, the LS7 would slaughter the v6 NSX. If the LS7 car happened across a modded (to similiar output) V6 NSX, my well educated money would still be with the LS7 due to it's superior "power under the curve."

After doing some reseach it turns out that a C32B weighs in at roughly 450 lbs. A LS7 weighs in at roughly 460lbs
So weight distribution should/would be the same.

I will revist the specs of the LS7 :

427 Cubic Inches
505 horsepower @ 6200 rpm
475 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4800 rpm
7000-rpm redline
Forged steel crankshaft with 101.6-mm (4-inch) stroke
Titanium connecting rods
Cast aluminum flat-top pistons
Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads with titanium intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves
Dry-sump oiling system
11.0:1 compression ratio
Camshaft with 15-mm (.591-inch) lift

Pretty high tech engine.

Compare to the later gen NSX motor :
195 Cubic Inch
SAE Net Horsepower @ RPM: 290 @ 7100
SAE Net Torque @ RPM: 224 @ 5500
DOHC
Iron coated aluminum pistons
Forged Steel Crankshaft
Titanium Connecting Rods

Still , very advanced.


Granted the C32 has some neat features, But as far as technology and capability goes, I would have to give the nod to the LS7, for its wet-sump, sodium filled ex valves, and all the titanium parts (rods, in valves, pushrods, etc) I know not many people will agree with me here, since this is a honda forum, however I tend to look at things without biased because of what I do. That and in various race series the LS7 and its variants have proved victorious over much more "advanced" DOHC engines.
It's not really going to be a NSX anymore after this guy is finished, he completely chopped the shit out of the chasis, 2nd there are a ton of aftermarket eng. mods for the NSX eng. take a look at the all the turbo and supercharger setups that are available. Like I said before the NSX was not just built for alot of HP's it was built for the handling, if you have ever driven one on the race track you would understand that. I can appreciate your expertise in this subject but you have vary little experience with the Honda/Acura Engineering and understanding of what and why they build the cars that they do. I know this is black and white for most of us, some love the domestic's and others do not, My point was when this LS7 project is finished it will not be much if at all a NSX anymore the chasis is chopped up and well as the front and rear sub frames. By the way I have looked through the cars that you have built and all I can say is wow you are the man when it comes to the domestics, keep up the good work I mean no disrespect in this thread to you or anybody else.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:50 AM   #34
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It's not really going to be a NSX anymore after this guy is finished, he completely chopped the shit out of the chasis, 2nd there are a ton of aftermarket eng. mods for the NSX eng. take a look at the all the turbo and supercharger setups that are available. Like I said before the NSX was not just built for alot of HP's it was built for the handling, if you have ever driven one on the race track you would understand that. I can appreciate your expertise in this subject but you have vary little experience with the Honda/Acura Engineering and understanding of what and why they build the cars that they do. I know this is black and white for most of us, some love the domestic's and others do not, My point was when this LS7 project is finished it will not be much if at all a NSX anymore the chasis is chopped up and well as the front and rear sub frames. By the way I have looked through the cars that you have built and all I can say is wow you are the man when it comes to the domestics, keep up the good work I mean no disrespect in this thread to you or anybody else.
Slow your roll kiddo lol.

First and foremost, I have more track experience than 90 percent of the people on here. I don't play "kid racer" or "canyon king" like alot of people. I can walk my talk, even though I rarely talk it. I have been competitively driving since I was 16. I have owned cars since I was 14. I have been winning autocrosses and time trails since I was 17. So I have a ton of track experience.I am a quiet guy, I dont care if people know what I have done. The photos I post in my thread are only the tip of the iceberg, and I have never posted them anywhere else. Most are not even on my personal website.

Second, I may post alot of muscle cars stuff, but that is just because I have not gotten to all the Italian, and Japanese stuff yet. I have hundreds of thousands of build pics. I have built Hondas, quite a few. I have built miatas (and owned 6,) I have ran/built Z06s, so I know all about handling. And I have built/prepped/and "dialed in" about every type of street car based track car you can shake a stick at. I understand Honda's engineering, and I understand the direction they took with the NSX. I know more about working suspension, setup, and handling than most people. I have studied, leaned, been taught, and applied my working knowledge to a variety of sucessful track cars, both vintage and newer. I am not bragging by any means, however assuming someone who "is the man at domestics" is not "the man" when it comes to import cars, is a flawed logic. The same engineering that applies to setting up something like a vintage trans-am car applies to a NSX, it applies to a civic, it applies to a miata. The theories, physics, etc are all the same, just the way it is implemented is different.

High Horsepower and Handling can co-exist. Especially when you combine a chassis that can handle power (like the NSX) with an engine that may be larger, but weights the same, or less. I know a guy who used to have a NSX race car, he ran it in about 6 events a year, and he won quite a few "Open Track Challenges" with the car. His biggest complaint?

The engine. He was constantly fighting with getting HP out of it that was reliable. So yes, they make turbos/superchargers. He ran a supercharger, and all the supporting mods. But unfortunately the money my friend spent to get his power, which was alot less than 505hp, BTW, he could have done this swap, and had no problems.

The problem with an NSX v6 making 500hp is that it requires forced induction. When you add forced induction, you add heat, and complexity, and the number of factors that can go wrong, especially on a race track, is increased. Manifolds can crack, intercoolers can get heat soaked, radiators cannot keep up, etc etc etc. Look at the Redline Time attack series. How many NSXs do you see in there? A couple. The reason why? Because building a track car out of a NSX is not cheap. Getting power out of the C32b, is not cheap. A engine swap is the perfect answer.

Swapping in a motor that makes 500hp reliably, and in stock form, is the ultimate answer. It is even better when the motor weighs the same, or less, than the stock motor. This way you do not upset the balance of the car, or the center of gravity if the engine does not sit higher.

If you look at the build pictures, you will notice a few things:

A. The engine does not appear to be higher than the stock one, so the center of gravity is the same. The LS7 also is of the same weight as the C32b, so the weight distro will be the same. If it is any different because of the transmission is mounted further back, due to the LS7 being mounted longitudinal, it will not be enough to disturb the balance, since the Porsche tranny is not that heavy.

B. Yes, he is modifying the suspension a bit. However I do not get where you come to the conclusion that he is destroying the car's handling. Judging by the looks of the suspension work he has done, as well as the chassis work, it is my expert opinion this guy knows how to make a car handle. Go to the suspension page and look at the fabbed parts, and the layout. It is well designed so far. OEM is not always the best my friend, even on a car like the NSX things are built to a budget, or a spec. When you can exceed the budget, and up the spec, then you need to do the same with the suspension, and this man is doing it. OEM engineering is not the law. All "stock" suspensions can be improved.

I undestand the sentiment about swapping a GM motor into an NSX, I used to cringe when I seen someone do the same with a RX-7, or a Porsche. But you have too look beyond that and look at the pure technical, and engineering side of the swap. IF this guy was just going nuts with a sawzall, then I would agree with you. But since this guy blatantly knows what he is doing, you are wrong.

This is not a "Billy bob" swap, obviously.This car is the NSX that Honda Should have made. a mid engine V8 NSX.

" I mean no disrespect in this thread to you or anybody else"

No worries dude.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:14 PM   #35
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cool man, I will keep my comments to myself I am an Acura Master Tech in Denver I would say Im a die hard import fan after years of working on them so I understand the engineering behind the Engine, Suspension, and electronics. I can appreciate the good information you have provided in this topic, I don't know if I will ever change my mind though
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:33 PM   #36
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Haha no worries. I am lucky enough to be on both sides, import/domestic/euro all the time, so I have no brand loyalties. Opinions are what makes the car world go round.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:41 PM   #37
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You should get on NSX prime, there are a hell of alot more NSX builds on there, if for anything it's cool to see what crazy ass ideas some of these guys come up with.
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Old 06-14-2010, 06:15 PM   #38
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I will check it out. I nearly bought a NSX many years ago that was in a fenderbender. I regret not doing it, but who knows what it would have ended up with engine/powertrain wise with me as the owner lol.
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Old 06-14-2010, 10:07 PM   #39
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PAUL, Mopars. NAOW
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:34 AM   #40
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Haha. I do like the mopars. I will have to post some mopar pixs, i done a few restos on some hemi and 440 cars
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Old 06-15-2010, 01:51 AM   #41
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Haha. I do like the mopars. I will have to post some mopar pixs, i done a few restos on some hemi and 440 cars
my first car was a 73 challenger, did a full resto, 340 hp motor, added a vinyl top and did a top banana yellow

my dad has 2 challengers at his house now too
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:27 PM   #42
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I love me some challengers. The E body cars were constructed like crap (interior build was horrible) but with the Hemi or a 440 they were awesome. At least the powertrains were fantastic. At least you were usually going fast enough not to notice what fell off. I am also a huge fan of the T/A and AAR challenger/cudas I have restored/worked on 5 or 6. the 6pack/340 combo was a great one, and the side exhaust sounded great.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:45 PM   #43
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I love me some challengers. The E body cars were constructed like crap (interior build was horrible) but with the Hemi or a 440 they were awesome. At least the powertrains were fantastic. At least you were usually going fast enough not to notice what fell off. I am also a huge fan of the T/A and AAR challenger/cudas I have restored/worked on 5 or 6. the 6pack/340 combo was a great one, and the side exhaust sounded great.
My dad has a 70 convertible all original numbers matching 340 car
and then he has a 440 6 pack RT/SE 70 challenger


he's the president of the Virginia Mopar club so I am always seeing pictures from his shows haha

I like the b-bodies, stuffing a 440 into a little dart was madness
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:51 PM   #44
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the B bodies (charger, roadrunner GTX, etc) were great, I restored a 69 roadrunner hemi,and a few others. I have a ton of pics of an A12 package "Lift off" hood roadrunner that was awesome. I used to upkeep it. They made two 1970 hemi coronet convertibles, they were pretty awesome. I dont some work on of them, really ugly, but it grew on me.

the A body cars were neat, I know a guy who has a clean, papered, documented M-Code 440 dart now. And I have driven a real Mr. Norms 440 Dart that is owned by a collector friend, the car was featured on Muscle Car TV a few years ago (Colin is their fav source for muscle cars lol) A big block A-body was pretty crazy, and they didnt handle all that bad either.
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Old 06-17-2010, 02:18 PM   #45
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You guys realize that this car is local right?
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Old 06-18-2010, 03:34 PM   #46
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scottsdale..
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Old 06-18-2010, 04:19 PM   #47
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You realize ya'll aren't talking bout NSX's n e more!

GTFO

jk i lub u all!

I am happy to have my 6 cylinder POS back
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Old 06-22-2010, 03:21 PM   #48
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You realize ya'll aren't talking bout NSX's n e more!

GTFO

jk i lub u all!

I am happy to have my 6 cylinder POS back
Ya thats what I was thinking
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Old 06-22-2010, 04:04 PM   #49
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My lil black underpowered crappy car got new rubber today though !YUM!
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